††††††††††††† James Westbay ††††††† 1440 Millers Landings,
††††††††††††† Jeff Jardine†††††††††††† 3845
††††††††††††† Mike Hurtak††††††††††††† 7400
††††††††††††† George Wrataric†††††††† 2505
ROLL CALL:† Bill Sasse, here; Scott Rowley, here; Scott Daffron, here; Charles Peck, here; Jim Chubb, here.
Scott Daffron:† Can I have a motion for approval of
commission minutes for the regular meeting held
Bill Sasse made a motion to approved October 11, 2010 minutes, seconded by Jim Chubb. ROLL Call: Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, sub stained; Scott Rowley, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Bill Sasse, yes.
Scott Daffron: Old business tonight can I have a motion for approval of 10-10 of New Business Cyber Zone- 166 S. High ††Bill Sasse made a motion for approval of 10-10, seconded by Charles Peck.
Scott Daffron:† Do we have anyone here to represent this business tonight? †Pat can you give us a legal opinion on this partial type of business now that we have had time to research it.
Patrick Wilson: Yes, the Trumbull County Prosecutor Attorney Dennis Watkins, On May 10 of this year declared that internet cafes are illegal activities and a violation, charter 29-15 in the Ohio Revised code which means there a criminal violation. So they would not be approved, so that is what county prosecutor declared that if the police in his jurisdiction, which is Trumbull county cited an operation under this code it would be a criminal violation and they could shut them down. And the police could shut them down with his support.
Jim Chubb:† In all the information you sent to us,
there are places in
Mayor Moll: †By his interpretation of the Ohio State Law.
Patrick Wilson: By Dennis Watkins, own interpretation how he wants to apply it to Trumbull Country. †The problem we have is that Ohio Attorney General has not taken a position on internet cafes, okay so if he does not take an opinion on it, or voice an opinion it is up to each county to do with what they please.
Mayor Moll: Based on that we would instruct our police to close them down. If they were new a business we would not let them start up.
Bill Sasse: †Instead of tabling this. What would be the best way to go?
Scott Daffron: In reality they failed to represent this business for two consecutive months. We tabled it last time and they are not here to represent it. We tabled it last time and I suggest we just vote on it.
Bill Sasse:† So we donít want to table it again, that is what I was going to suggest.
Patrick Wilson: Anyone else have any other question? Otherwise take a vote?
Scott Daffron: No other questions? Can we have a vote on 10-10 Roll Call: Jim Chubb, no; Scott Rowley, no; Bill Sasse, no; Scott Daffron, no; Charles Peck, no.
Scott Daffron: That moves us on to new business can I have a motion of approval of 11-10- replat of Hidden Lake Development- Plat No 4 36-A, 38, 39, 40 & 41; Plat No 6, Lot 50 & 52.
Bill Sasse: †made a motion for approval of 11-10, seconded by Scott Rowley.
Scott Daffron: Who do we have to represent this tonight?
Scott Daffron: Can you give us a little bit actually what we are doing with the replats?
James Westbay: Just adding land to lots, their buying land in behind them to make their lot a little bigger.
Scott Daffron: They simple add land behind their lots.
James Westbay: Yes, behind their lots.
James Westbay: So we need to make each individual lot?
Don Wittman: †No, trying to avoid that.
Patrick Wilson: The recorderís office wonít let us know that, until these are taken down for recordings.
Charles Peck: This is close to the township line is there any issue there that we need to be aware of?
Mayor Moll:† Whatís going to happen with 37, 53? Is that the two that did not decide to do that?
James Westbay: †Yes
Don Wittman: Those are not lots at this point.
James Westbay: †There land.
Don Wittman: It a appears that is being laid out for a road way, however it is just acting as a buffer to the houses that front Brookview at this point, there are no plans to put in a road on the back side running parallel to Brookview in Drive.
Mayor Moll: These
people could annex this property in to
Don Wittman: Yes.
They can annex into
Patrick Wilson: If their property is continuous they could.
Mayor Moll: The front halves are in, it just depends if itís advantageous to them or not, I donít know.
Patrick Wilson: Don, have we used this method in the last couple of years on another development some where?
Scott Daffron: †Did they say that in the Petrocco plat.
Patrick Wilson: We added to the back end of the lot.
Mayor Moll: Route 11 where the condos had property. No, it was not the condos.
Scott Daffron: †It was right behind all the condoís or duplex or somewhere in that area.
Patrick Wilson: And they accepted it.
Don Wittman: †ya
That was all
Patrick Wilson: Not to the recorder.
Scott Daffron: Any other questions? Seen as none.
Can we have a vote on 11-10 Roll Call: Scott Daffron, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Scott Rowley, yes; Charles Peck, yes; Bill Sasse, yes. Motion Approved.
Scott Daffron: Can I have a motion for approval on 12-10-Preliminary Plan Approval-Integrated Planned
Residential Development-Jardine Management LLC -16 Units Hawkís landing on
2.0 Acres Parcel at
Bill Sasse: made a motion for approval of 11-10, seconded by Scott Rowley.
Scott Daffron: Who do we have to represent this tonight?
Scott Daffron: Can you give us a little over view of your plans.
Jeff Jardine: We plan on taking the existing home down, it is pretty run down itís been there for a while; we are going to erect a development in mere imagines as Eagle point pretty much the same things as Jerry Carleton did over there we hired the same engineer and basically heís going do the same exact concept as Eagle Point.
Scott Daffon: †Are there two houses on that right now?
Jeff Jardine: No just one, we have one neighbor that is infringing on the property with a building, we were just going to approach him. I think there is no foundation, they just built the building on own property. Thatís a building that donít have any foundation we will probably just pull it up for them or do what ever they want us to do with it. There is one brick house up there.
Jim Chubb: Are you building these to sell? Are you building these to rent?
Jeff Jardine: yes
Jeff Jardine: ††No, I am building them that they could be sold, but I plan on maintaining ownership of them.
Charles Peck:† Are there any special programs involved such as low income or anything on these or is this just regular?
Jeff Jardine: Itís a straight cash deal. I like to reserve the right to sell them, because I am going to build separated utilities to each unit. So they would be able to be sold if, I could have it both ways at the beginning the whole ambition is to keep them for retirement. To maintain them with the same association and the same by laws that Jerry does weíre adopting the whole thing the same way he did except were going to hang on to them.
Mayor Moll: You will have documents set up?
Jeff Jardine: We are going to have an association and will run the association. You basically look for the same type of association we are going threw Jerryís stuff right now, weíre adapting pretty much the same exact concept the same thing.† Were going to target fifty five and older and kind of make it a safe and real nice pine tree the whole bit, we were very satisfied with the stuff he did, weíre going to mirror that imagine.
Mayor Moll: That entrance where you got it looks pretty steep coming off forty six.
Jeff Jardin: Yep, right now it would be very steep; weíre going to do elevation changes once we get the trees, down and the house. Weíre going to build a retaining wall and do the entrance way real attractive.
†Mayor Moll:† So youíre going to lower that down?
Jeff Jardine: †yes
Mayor Moll: Snow removal youíre going to be using private snow removal there, that would be a real issue.
Jeff Jardine:† We will take care of all the snow removal and landscaping and cutting issues and pine tree and same thing Jerry did.
Charles Peck: †Each one will have a garage.
Jeff Jardine: Yep, the same building as ones at Eagle point. The Only things we changed was a interior wall of the master bath upstairs so they would have access to it.
Bill Sasse: Don are the road ways here wide enough for fire trucks and everything? We ran into that once before?
Don Wittman: I canít speak to that.
Jeff Jardine: They mentioned something about a 10 or 14 ft when we were in preliminary discussions but weíre willing to do what ever we have to do to meet the criterion for fire.
Mayor Moll: Is that a problem up at Eagle Point now with that.
†Caption Pat Dales: No everything at Eagle point is fine.
Bill Sasse: It wasnít in Eagle point that we had a problem, it was I donít remember.
The one on
Bill Sasse: †Harding Landing, we had a slit problem with fire trucks not being able to make that one turn.
†Mayor Moll: I donít think so. I want to make sure on these plans that does not happen.
Mayor Moll: †Itís pretty open there.
Jeff Jardine I would also like to introduce my business partners Mike Hurtak† &† George Wrataric† came up here tonight.
Scott Daffron: Is there anything you wanted to add to this discussion Don.
Jeff Jardine: Same roof lines too it nothing that a ladder probably?
Charles Peck:† Don, do you feel that the retention ponds will be adequate?
Charles Peck:† Let the recorder note.
Don Wittman: That weíre looking at now 16 units on parcel the layout the flow this board is making sure it fits in with the character and the nature of the surrounding area as far as the grade of the utilities and water line, sewer line, storm water retention those will be scrutinized when the detail plans are submitted.
Charles Peck: Where do these ponds discard to?
Jeff Jardine:† I would like to make a comment, that land typical really a lot easier thing some of the stuff I looked at in the past because itís on a hill side the creek runs real steep on the back then you have walnut creek running 30 ft below the development the retention just would hold the water and it could just flow in to that back creek it would be all positive flow. I think what these guys have there is real adequate.
Mayor Moll: The only other thing we have run into back on Eagle Point we have had some issue with the street with trash collection. I donít know if it was a design issue or if there was some damage done to the driveways by the trash collection trucks because they do come up thru there and make pickups and they were having difficulty with that.
Jeff Jardine:† Did you guys do anything to resolve that I am unaware of the trash problem.
Mayor Moll: I think they just said donít come up here pickup recycling anymore was the ultimatum.
Mayor Moll: †Just a caution area thing, trash trucks are kind of large and they do come thru these sub divisions unless you make some other provisions, for trash collection pick up.
Jeff Jardine: †If it were a problem that could be something we could look at.
Don Wittman: †Being as your going to own and maintain.
Mayor Moll: You could make other arrangements.
Jeff Jardine: †Iíll be honest with you I have not even thought about that.
Mayor Moll: We have a contract, a single source contract with Allied Waste for residential pick up. If youíre a rental unit though you can have, commercial account, then youíre not limited to Allied Waste. So you could put in a dumpster and have it collected at a central point and have someone else come in and pick it up.† If you had each individual renter contract for them selves then you would need to go with Allied Waste, then youíd have trucks in there.
Jim Chubb: As long as you owned that whole place you could hire whoever you wanted on trash is that correct?
Mayor Moll: †yes
Jim Chubb: †Prefer to, let all the rental do it for you, prefer that you fine one that does the whole place.
Jeff Jardine: Okay, I donít have a problem with that. Honestly we have not thought about it too much. We were involved with some of the other stuff, whatever you guys would like to see.
Scott Rowley: Is there any place for over flow parking?
Jeff Jardine: Over flow parking what I have there is I believe I have a two car garage thereís probably a space for four people per unit to park. I got a two car garage in each unit two in the garage and two outside so thereís four per unit I do have some room Don, is right this is a preliminary plan when I get it all laid out clear out I will try and make the best use of the land† first we were thinking about a single road up there and the unit around a single road† but when the† engineer came up with this new idea to utilizes the† property differently† it does make more space in center a and the ability and were thinking about a unit that they can have gatherings or someone wants to have a birthday party we thought we would build some type of building of the mail thing where everyone gets there mail we having not talked about it
How were going to utilizes that I will try and get as much black top there as I can I do think I have adequate because am putting two garages there.
Scott Daffron: †We not actually ask for more black top.
Scott Daffron: I think his question is just that each duplex unit is four car wide the asphalt coming to the garage.
Scott Rowley: That was my question if you have your two cars in the garage and two people park behind you, is there some place if youíre entertaining for those people to park.
Jeff Jardine: They would park on the street.
Mayor Moll: Golf drive is like that.
Bill Sasse: They will fine a place to park.
Charles Peck: Does this street have a name yet?
Jeff Jardine: We just name the development Hawkís landing. I donít have a name for the street.
Charles Peck:† Just curious, I could not find it.
Bill Sasse: †The one the GPS will never find.
Jeff Jardine: We intend to build it to enhance the area.
Scott Daffron: In the event that these are sold, or a couple are sold the road and the maintenance would be responsible of the condo association.
Jeff Jardine: It is my understanding how this laws work I learn this from Jerry mostly is that as long as we maintain ownership of more units then we sell greater then fifty percent the association would stay are. As soon as we would sell one more unit that would not give us the majoring and more we then have to turn the association the owners.
Scott Daffron: Okay, any other questions? I see none.
Can we have a vote on 12-10 Roll Call: Scott Rowley, yes; Bill Sasse, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, yes. Motion Approved.
Scott Daffron: †Want to bring up our discussion about signs.
†Charles Peck:† So far so good thank you very much for addressing that situation.
Bill Sasse: What
about the cigarettes sign at
Charles Peck: †I want go back a visit that soup and sandwich thing before we get to speedway. That means these thing can be up there three week out of the four in the month. Two week ahead and two weeks after and it are off premises advertising.
Don Wittman: Special temp sign 132112A2 special community sign that which may be located on private property.
Charles Peck: †But it not on private property it on the road right of way. On the right of way itís on the double strip and what got me fired up they put them on gazebo point.
Charles Peck: They were.
Jim Chubb: Charles as taken them all down.
Charles Peck: But that on private property not public property.
Scott Daffron: I honestly went a paid a lot of attention, actually things looked pretty nice.
Mayor Moll: †Which sign are you talking about?
Charles Peck: The white with red lettering that advertise soup and sandwich or something like that every Thursday or one Thursday a month
Jim Chubb: Ya at the church I saw that sign.
Mayor Moll:† Thatís only been out there a day or two a head of time and takes it down.
Charles Peck: They put it in the right of way not in private property.
Jim Chubb: †We just had an incredible election that none of the sign were in the right place.
Mayor Moll: †No
Jim Chubb: I donít know if I would worry about that or not.
Charles Peck: Every time you let one go it just attracts others.
Mayor Moll: †If on gazebo point then we should take it down. Itís a city park we donít need to have signs in a city park.
Patrick Wilson: Should advise the church do they know about it.
Mayor Moll:† We did and they just had some one else do it. I just have not seen that sign out much expect for the day they have the luncheon.† Maybe it had been up more then that.
Charles Peck: †Iíll have to bring better documentation next meeting.
Scott Daffron: Anything else?
Bill Sasse: Cigarette sign hanging on the poles down at speedway, the flu shot signs stuck all over the lawn at Walgreenís, there a lot of little stuff and there really nothing we can do about it because you fix one and another going to pop up† I guess it just something we just have to learn to live with.
Bill Sasse: What do you think of that Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Moll: I donít have a problem with that.
Bill Sasse:† I am sorry.
Mayor Moll:† I said, I donít have a problem with that I just donít know who would do it.
Patrick Wilson: It sounds like a man power problem.
Charles Peck: †Are we empowered to do it?
Patrick Wilson: †I donít know.
The shot at Walgreenís give me a little different thought then the
cigarette here and they have a tanning thing on
Patrick Wilson: No
Charles Peck: What would the proper protocol call be to call Don is this permitted sign?
Don Wittman:† I donít really think itís a man power as far as having some out there to put the sticker up obesity it falls on me as the zoning inspector because Ií am going to make that derma nation on what is prohibited and what is permitted. So, an less you hirer a zoning inspector to make that discussion.
Mayor Moll: †Just something else for him to do.
Scott Daffron: You know probably the majorette of this stuff is like a Walgreenís† they send the eighteen year old girl that working at† the counter† here why donít you go put this out side and there it is.
Scott Daffron: Same thing with the churches and stuff multiple people just doing this. There really just trying to get advertising out and letting people know.
Bill Sasse: The one that drive me nuts is the cigarettes sign on the post at speedway.
Scott Daffron: †Patchily thing.
Bill Sasse: Right and it should not be there that one looks like trash.
Mayor Moll: †Take it down.
Bill Sasse: That why I said there no since in bring it up because thing will get done. I am not saying Don you wonít do any thing. But, itís just that we keep talking and just keeps staying there if it good for business fine.
Jim Chubb: I think it our job to bring it to you but I donít think it our job to bring it down.
Don Wittman: †I agree one hundred percent Jim.
Charles Peck: Still okay if we take them down.
Scott Daffron: Letís find out.
Charles Peck: †Well if there on gazebo point or speedway point you know that pretty much say they come down.
Mayor Moll: you can take them down.
Bill Sasse: †I like to make a motion we adjoin.
Charles Peck:† I would like to ask if we can send a letter to speedway to take down the offending sign.
Don Wittman: I have speedway and flu shots at Walgreenís.
Mayor Moll: Are the flu shots are permitted some point in town for some period of time as an event?
Don Wittman:† No one submitted anything for approval.
Charles Peck: They put that on the city right away instead of putting on their own property is it going to matter if they move them back are we still saying their not aloud to have it.
Don Wittman: itís still prohibited.
Charles Peck: How can we give them permission itís dam good thing to have.
Scott Daffron: †And what defines a sandwich place.
Bill Sasse: Let see submitted for approval stone for sixty dollars or seventy, there are a ton of sign out there that donít have approval on them.
Scott Daffron: Thatís exactly true.
Bill Sasse: So what are we going to do to Flo Hutton say can you take the sign down she does too much for the community.
Don Wittman: Itís not Flo
Bill Sasse: Wollarm Chevelote say you have banner sign hanging out on your post they should not be there he is a darn good community person. So at some point we have to say enough is enough and we just turn our back on it.
Bill Sasse: made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Scott Rowley. Roll Call: †Jim Chubb. yes; Scott Rowley,yes; Bill Sasse, yes; Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, yes; MOTION APPROVED.
Meeting Adjourned: .
†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† _ ††††††††† ††††††††† ____†††††††††† ___________________
Scott Daffron, Chairman ††††††††† Date††††††††††† Julie Shaffer-Wood, Sec