City of Cortland Planning, Zoning & Building Commission met on Monday, November 8, 2010 at 7:00 P.M., at the City Administration Building, 400 N. High Street. Members present: Chairman Scott Daffron, Jim Chubb, Scott Rowley and Vice-Chairman, Bill Sasse, Charlie Peck, Also present were Law Director Patrick Wilson, Mayor Curt Moll, and Service Dirctor, Don Wittman and the following individuals:


††††††††††††† James Westbay ††††††† 1440 Millers Landings, Cortland

††††††††††††† Jeff Jardine†††††††††††† 3845 Smith-Stewart Rd, Niles

††††††††††††† Mike Hurtak††††††††††††† 7400 Struthers Rd, Poland

††††††††††††† George Wrataric†††††††† 2505 Warren-Sharon Rd, Niles


Scott Daffron: Today is Monday, November 8, 2010.Iíd like to call to order the Cortland Planning, Zoning & Building Commission.

ROLL CALL:Bill Sasse, here; Scott Rowley, here; Scott Daffron, here; Charles Peck, here; Jim Chubb, here.


Scott Daffron:Can I have a motion for approval of commission minutes for the regular meeting held October 11, 2010?


Bill Sasse made a motion to approved October 11, 2010 minutes, seconded by Jim Chubb. ROLL Call: Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, sub stained; Scott Rowley, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Bill Sasse, yes.


Scott Daffron: Old business tonight can I have a motion for approval of 10-10 of New Business Cyber Zone- 166 S. High ††Bill Sasse made a motion for approval of 10-10, seconded by Charles Peck.


Scott Daffron:Do we have anyone here to represent this business tonight? Pat can you give us a legal opinion on this partial type of business now that we have had time to research it.


Patrick Wilson: Yes, the Trumbull County Prosecutor Attorney Dennis Watkins, On May 10 of this year declared that internet cafes are illegal activities and a violation, charter 29-15 in the Ohio Revised code which means there a criminal violation. So they would not be approved, so that is what county prosecutor declared that if the police in his jurisdiction, which is Trumbull county cited an operation under this code it would be a criminal violation and they could shut them down. And the police could shut them down with his support.


Jim Chubb:In all the information you sent to us, there are places in Ohio that are running and being approved by Governors and mayors on things. But your saying by the Ohio state law there saying itís not


Mayor Moll: By his interpretation of the Ohio State Law.


Patrick Wilson: By Dennis Watkins, own interpretation how he wants to apply it to Trumbull Country. The problem we have is that Ohio Attorney General has not taken a position on internet cafes, okay so if he does not take an opinion on it, or voice an opinion it is up to each county to do with what they please.


Mayor Moll: Based on that we would instruct our police to close them down. If they were new a business we would not let them start up.


Bill Sasse: Instead of tabling this. What would be the best way to go?


Scott Daffron: In reality they failed to represent this business for two consecutive months. We tabled it last time and they are not here to represent it. We tabled it last time and I suggest we just vote on it.


Bill Sasse:So we donít want to table it again, that is what I was going to suggest.


Patrick Wilson: Anyone else have any other question? Otherwise take a vote?


Scott Daffron: No other questions? Can we have a vote on 10-10 Roll Call: Jim Chubb, no; Scott Rowley, no; Bill Sasse, no; Scott Daffron, no; Charles Peck, no.


Scott Daffron: That moves us on to new business can I have a motion of approval of 11-10- replat of Hidden Lake Development- Plat No 4 36-A, 38, 39, 40 & 41; Plat No 6, Lot 50 & 52.


Bill Sasse: made a motion for approval of 11-10, seconded by Scott Rowley.

Scott Daffron: Who do we have to represent this tonight?

James Westbay


Scott Daffron: Can you give us a little bit actually what we are doing with the replats?


James Westbay: Just adding land to lots, their buying land in behind them to make their lot a little bigger.


Scott Daffron: They simple add land behind their lots.


James Westbay: Yes, behind their lots.


Don Wittman: Scott if I can just speak on this, technically we are taking acreageand adding them to existing lots so probably it should be done in a two step process where thereís a subdivide to create those lots then add them. And then sell those individual lots to the property owner then each individual property owner would then have to come in an do a replat. We are just essentiality allowing this to accrue in one step? So as long as the recorderís office is okay with this.


James Westbay: So we need to make each individual lot?


Don Wittman: No, trying to avoid that.


Patrick Wilson: The recorderís office wonít let us know that, until these are taken down for recordings.


Charles Peck: This is close to the township line is there any issue there that we need to be aware of?


Don Wittman: There is actually four southern lots weíll have, one will be Fowler township, we have done that in the past, they will just get a tax duplicate for the portion of the property, the main residences is in Cortland on a parcel that is located in Cortland, the rear portion of the parcel will be in Fowler township that would be for 38-41A, you can see the cooperating a bounty going thru those and bisecting.


Mayor Moll:Whatís going to happen with 37, 53? Is that the two that did not decide to do that?


Patrick Wilson: Cortland development keeps and maintains ownership of those two lots.


James Westbay: Yes


Don Wittman: Those are not lots at this point.


James Westbay: There land.


Don Wittman: It a appears that is being laid out for a road way, however it is just acting as a buffer to the houses that front Brookview at this point, there are no plans to put in a road on the back side running parallel to Brookview in Drive.


Mayor Moll: These people could annex this property in to Cortland throws too?


Don Wittman: Yes.


Charles Peck: They can annex into Cortland that far out?


Patrick Wilson: If their property is continuous they could.


Mayor Moll: The front halves are in, it just depends if itís advantageous to them or not, I donít know.


Patrick Wilson: Don, have we used this method in the last couple of years on another development some where?


Scott Daffron: Did they say that in the Petrocco plat.


Patrick Wilson: We added to the back end of the lot.


Mayor Moll: Route 11 where the condos had property. No, it was not the condos.

Scott Daffron: It was right behind all the condoís or duplex or somewhere in that area.


Don Wittman:Thatís a good point Patrick that did accrue in a one step process where they were breaking off.


Patrick Wilson: And they accepted it.


Don Wittman: ya


Charles Peck: That was all Cortland City, where this has some township in there that does not mean anything to us.


Patrick Wilson: Not to the recorder.


Don Wittman: An as far the inner play of the border and the property getting added from combining in another parcel where a portion of it is in the city and a portion is the township, we had that issue up off of Brownley-Bradley Rd, we did the fence line dispute issue where actually a portion was in the city but given to the adjacent property owners as a buffer that was in Fowler township so it was not really an issue for the recorder or the auditor office. They will just have two tax bills.


Scott Daffron: Any other questions? Seen as none.


Can we have a vote on 11-10 Roll Call: Scott Daffron, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Scott Rowley, yes; Charles Peck, yes; Bill Sasse, yes. Motion Approved.


Scott Daffron: Can I have a motion for approval on 12-10-Preliminary Plan Approval-Integrated Planned Residential Development-Jardine Management LLC -16 Units Hawkís landing on 2.0 Acres Parcel at 419 S. Mecca St.

Bill Sasse: made a motion for approval of 11-10, seconded by Scott Rowley.


Scott Daffron: Who do we have to represent this tonight?


Jeff Jardine


Scott Daffron: Can you give us a little over view of your plans.


Jeff Jardine: We plan on taking the existing home down, it is pretty run down itís been there for a while; we are going to erect a development in mere imagines as Eagle point pretty much the same things as Jerry Carleton did over there we hired the same engineer and basically heís going do the same exact concept as Eagle Point.


Scott Daffon: Are there two houses on that right now?


Jeff Jardine: No just one, we have one neighbor that is infringing on the property with a building, we were just going to approach him. I think there is no foundation, they just built the building on own property. Thatís a building that donít have any foundation we will probably just pull it up for them or do what ever they want us to do with it. There is one brick house up there.


Jim Chubb: Are you building these to sell? Are you building these to rent?


Jeff Jardine: yes


Jeff Jardine: No, I am building them that they could be sold, but I plan on maintaining ownership of them.


Charles Peck:Are there any special programs involved such as low income or anything on these or is this just regular?



Jeff Jardine: Itís a straight cash deal. I like to reserve the right to sell them, because I am going to build separated utilities to each unit. So they would be able to be sold if, I could have it both ways at the beginning the whole ambition is to keep them for retirement. To maintain them with the same association and the same by laws that Jerry does weíre adopting the whole thing the same way he did except were going to hang on to them.


Mayor Moll: You will have documents set up?


Jeff Jardine: We are going to have an association and will run the association. You basically look for the same type of association we are going threw Jerryís stuff right now, weíre adapting pretty much the same exact concept the same thing.Were going to target fifty five and older and kind of make it a safe and real nice pine tree the whole bit, we were very satisfied with the stuff he did, weíre going to mirror that imagine.


Mayor Moll: That entrance where you got it looks pretty steep coming off forty six.


Jeff Jardin: Yep, right now it would be very steep; weíre going to do elevation changes once we get the trees, down and the house. Weíre going to build a retaining wall and do the entrance way real attractive.


Mayor Moll:So youíre going to lower that down?


Jeff Jardine: yes


Mayor Moll: Snow removal youíre going to be using private snow removal there, that would be a real issue.


Jeff Jardine:We will take care of all the snow removal and landscaping and cutting issues and pine tree and same thing Jerry did.


Charles Peck: Each one will have a garage.


Jeff Jardine: Yep, the same building as ones at Eagle point. The Only things we changed was a interior wall of the master bath upstairs so they would have access to it.


Bill Sasse: Don are the road ways here wide enough for fire trucks and everything? We ran into that once before?


Don Wittman: I canít speak to that.


Jeff Jardine: They mentioned something about a 10 or 14 ft when we were in preliminary discussions but weíre willing to do what ever we have to do to meet the criterion for fire.


Mayor Moll: Is that a problem up at Eagle Point now with that.


Caption Pat Dales: No everything at Eagle point is fine.


Bill Sasse: It wasnít in Eagle point that we had a problem, it was I donít remember.

Don Wittman: The one on Fowler Street.


Bill Sasse: Harding Landing, we had a slit problem with fire trucks not being able to make that one turn.


Mayor Moll: I donít think so. I want to make sure on these plans that does not happen.


Mayor Moll: Itís pretty open there.


Jeff Jardine I would also like to introduce my business partners Mike Hurtak&George Wratariccame up here tonight.


Scott Daffron: Is there anything you wanted to add to this discussion Don.


Don Wittman: I guess as far as the access with the fire trucks or for the†† fire department and ambulance as well I did bring attention to the fire chief that it is 12 ft wide drive actually the main entrance is 24 ft wide that beats the widthfor a driveway for two way traffic but once you get to that point and enter a traffic circle it probably will be one way because itís going to be 12ft in width so the residents figure it out and I am sure 12ftdriveway one way should allow for a fire truck to get around a ladder truck might be a different story youíre not putting curb up there it will just be over grass.


Jeff Jardine: Same roof lines too it nothing that a ladder probably?


Don Wittman:If a ladder truck has to get up there. Repairing grass is going to be the least of your worries. To summarize we are in planning approving process this is a preliminary development plan submission for the Integrated Residential Development thatís charter 11-21 of our zoning code and that is what controlled the development of Walnut run senior homes were to have multi units on a single parcel so this is the first step of approval they progress and changes or recommendations that you see necessary at this point can be incorporatedinto the submission of the final development plan which will come forward at the next meeting of the planning and zoning commission. Once that final plan is approved by this board, if itís approved by this board it will be recommended to council as the final approval of the final development plan.


Charles Peck:Don, do you feel that the retention ponds will be adequate?


Don Wittman: I will make sure that they, design storm.

Charles Peck:Let the recorder note.


Don Wittman: That weíre looking at now 16 units on parcel the layout the flow this board is making sure it fits in with the character and the nature of the surrounding area as far as the grade of the utilities and water line, sewer line, storm water retention those will be scrutinized when the detail plans are submitted.


Charles Peck: Where do these ponds discard to?


Jeff Jardine:I would like to make a comment, that land typical really a lot easier thing some of the stuff I looked at in the past because itís on a hill side the creek runs real steep on the back then you have walnut creek running 30 ft below the development the retention just would hold the water and it could just flow in to that back creek it would be all positive flow. I think what these guys have there is real adequate.


Don Wittman: Correctly there is a eight inch discharge line that they are tying into from that retaining pond that exiting goes underneath the road way to the adjacent property owned.


Mayor Moll: The only other thing we have run into back on Eagle Point we have had some issue with the street with trash collection. I donít know if it was a design issue or if there was some damage done to the driveways by the trash collection trucks because they do come up thru there and make pickups and they were having difficulty with that.


Jeff Jardine:Did you guys do anything to resolve that I am unaware of the trash problem.


Mayor Moll: I think they just said donít come up here pickup recycling anymore was the ultimatum.


Don Wittman: What had happened Jeff, was they switched the style of trucks that they were using to the heavier trash trucks that Allied Wastes has gone to in their fleet as opposed to the small axle that they used in past years for awhile there I think they would bring up the small truck because what had happened was that you actually had asphalt filler in the wheel ruts.


Mayor Moll: Just a caution area thing, trash trucks are kind of large and they do come thru these sub divisions unless you make some other provisions, for trash collection pick up.


Jeff Jardine: If it were a problem that could be something we could look at.


Don Wittman: Being as your going to own and maintain.


Mayor Moll: You could make other arrangements.


Don Wittman: Now that is a good point, as far as another concern the radius for that to accommodate trash truck.Unless youĎre going to require each unit to have there own individual service or provide a centralized trash for the complex.


Jeff Jardine: Iíll be honest with you I have not even thought about that.


Mayor Moll: We have a contract, a single source contract with Allied Waste for residential pick up. If youíre a rental unit though you can have, commercial account, then youíre not limited to Allied Waste. So you could put in a dumpster and have it collected at a central point and have someone else come in and pick it up.If you had each individual renter contract for them selves then you would need to go with Allied Waste, then youíd have trucks in there.


Jim Chubb: As long as you owned that whole place you could hire whoever you wanted on trash is that correct?


Mayor Moll: yes


Jim Chubb: Prefer to, let all the rental do it for you, prefer that you fine one that does the whole place.


Jeff Jardine: Okay, I donít have a problem with that. Honestly we have not thought about it too much. We were involved with some of the other stuff, whatever you guys would like to see.


Scott Rowley: Is there any place for over flow parking?


Jeff Jardine: Over flow parking what I have there is I believe I have a two car garage thereís probably a space for four people per unit to park. I got a two car garage in each unit two in the garage and two outside so thereís four per unit I do have some room Don, is right this is a preliminary plan when I get it all laid out clear out I will try and make the best use of the landfirst we were thinking about a single road up there and the unit around a single roadbut when theengineer came up with this new idea to utilizes theproperty differentlyit does make more space in center a and the ability and were thinking about a unit that they can have gatherings or someone wants to have a birthday party we thought we would build some type of building of the mail thing where everyone gets there mail we having not talked about it

How were going to utilizes that I will try and get as much black top there as I can I do think I have adequate because am putting two garages there.


Scott Daffron: We not actually ask for more black top.


Scott Daffron: I think his question is just that each duplex unit is four car wide the asphalt coming to the garage.


Scott Rowley: That was my question if you have your two cars in the garage and two people park behind you, is there some place if youíre entertaining for those people to park.


Jeff Jardine: They would park on the street.


Mayor Moll: Golf drive is like that.


Bill Sasse: They will fine a place to park.


Charles Peck: Does this street have a name yet?


Jeff Jardine: We just name the development Hawkís landing. I donít have a name for the street.


Charles Peck:Just curious, I could not find it.


Don Wittman: It will be a private street Charles so, like all the other roads that are private road ways are in just name only like Creeksite Commons is really not on the map.

Bill Sasse: The one the GPS will never find.


Jeff Jardine: We intend to build it to enhance the area.


Scott Daffron: In the event that these are sold, or a couple are sold the road and the maintenance would be responsible of the condo association.


Jeff Jardine: It is my understanding how this laws work I learn this from Jerry mostly is that as long as we maintain ownership of more units then we sell greater then fifty percent the association would stay are. As soon as we would sell one more unit that would not give us the majoring and more we then have to turn the association the owners.


Scott Daffron: Okay, any other questions? I see none.


Can we have a vote on 12-10 Roll Call: Scott Rowley, yes; Bill Sasse, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, yes. Motion Approved.


Scott Daffron: Want to bring up our discussion about signs.


Don Wittman: I think I resolved the issue with Belleria Pizza and the weekend portable signs. In less anyone as see it appear on the weekend.


Charles Peck:So far so good thank you very much for addressing that situation.


Don Wittman: The issue with the soup and sandwich sign I believe those would fall under a ques public temp sign that can be displayed fifteen days prier to the event and remove seven days after I think that what the requirement are in the sign ordinances.


Bill Sasse: What about the cigarettes sign at Speedway?


Charles Peck: I want go back a visit that soup and sandwich thing before we get to speedway. That means these thing can be up there three week out of the four in the month. Two week ahead and two weeks after and it are off premises advertising.


Don Wittman: Special temp sign 132112A2 special community sign that which may be located on private property.

Charles Peck:
But it not on private property it on the road right of way. On the right of way itís on the double strip and what got me fired up they put them on gazebo point.


Don Wittman: Iíll have to look at it. I have not since any in resent weeks.


Charles Peck: They were.


Jim Chubb: Charles as taken them all down.


Don Wittman: Fifteen day before and taken down three days after the event.


Charles Peck: But that on private property not public property.


Scott Daffron: I honestly went a paid a lot of attention, actually things looked pretty nice.


Mayor Moll: Which sign are you talking about?


Charles Peck: The white with red lettering that advertise soup and sandwich or something like that every Thursday or one Thursday a month


Jim Chubb: Ya at the church I saw that sign.


Mayor Moll:Thatís only been out there a day or two a head of time and takes it down.


Charles Peck: They put it in the right of way not in private property.


Jim Chubb: We just had an incredible election that none of the sign were in the right place.


Mayor Moll: No


Jim Chubb: I donít know if I would worry about that or not.


Charles Peck: Every time you let one go it just attracts others.


Mayor Moll: If on gazebo point then we should take it down. Itís a city park we donít need to have signs in a city park.


Patrick Wilson: Should advise the church do they know about it.


Mayor Moll:We did and they just had some one else do it. I just have not seen that sign out much expect for the day they have the luncheon.Maybe it had been up more then that.


Charles Peck: Iíll have to bring better documentation next meeting.


Scott Daffron: Anything else?


Bill Sasse: Cigarette sign hanging on the poles down at speedway, the flu shot signs stuck all over the lawn at Walgreenís, there a lot of little stuff and there really nothing we can do about it because you fix one and another going to pop upI guess it just something we just have to learn to live with.


Don Wittman: I guess that go back to my succession or the ideas, that other†† communities do we adopted that where we have thou prohibited sign sticker that you go instead of tearing them down or sending letters and taking all that time you go out with thereís sticker and find these sign and start putting the prohibited sign placard across that sign that is illegal.


Bill Sasse: What do you think of that Mr. Mayor?


Mayor Moll: I donít have a problem with that.


Bill Sasse:I am sorry.


Mayor Moll:I said, I donít have a problem with that I just donít know who would do it.


Patrick Wilson: It sounds like a man power problem.


Charles Peck: Are we empowered to do it?


Patrick Wilson: I donít know.


Charles Peck: The shot at Walgreenís give me a little different thought then the cigarette here and they have a tanning thing on Main Street. A big old tanning. We would be darn busy. Patrick, could we be causing the city a problem if we were to use the irregular sign stickers. Is there anything that we could be doing to putting the city in jeopardy?


Patrick Wilson: No


Charles Peck: What would the proper protocol call be to call Don is this permitted sign?


Don Wittman:I donít really think itís a man power as far as having some out there to put the sticker up obesity it falls on me as the zoning inspector because Ií am going to make that derma nation on what is prohibited and what is permitted. So, an less you hirer a zoning inspector to make that discussion.


Mayor Moll: Just something else for him to do.


Scott Daffron: You know probably the majorette of this stuff is like a Walgreenísthey send the eighteen year old girl that working atthe counterhere why donít you go put this out side and there it is.


Don Wittman: Walgreenís be very respective, when they first installed there lights they had there banner sign up there showing pharmacy and photo and we sent them a letter and they took them down. We can do the something with the flu shots the thing is sometimes there and there blown away the next day or they are taking them out.


Scott Daffron: Same thing with the churches and stuff multiple people just doing this. There really just trying to get advertising out and letting people know.


Bill Sasse: The one that drive me nuts is the cigarettes sign on the post at speedway.


Scott Daffron: Patchily thing.


Bill Sasse: Right and it should not be there that one looks like trash.


Mayor Moll: Take it down.


Bill Sasse: That why I said there no since in bring it up because thing will get done. I am not saying Don you wonít do any thing. But, itís just that we keep talking and just keeps staying there if it good for business fine.


Don Wittman:We talked about the portable sign at Belleria that is a clear broke the rule prohibited I sent them an email. These signs are prohibited I can send them a letter stating that they are illegal and they need removed. As far as a fallow up I would need to relay on you people who are driving throw town and see these and who it affects on a daily basis to give me some feed back and will do a fallow up.


Jim Chubb: I think it our job to bring it to you but I donít think it our job to bring it down.


Don Wittman: I agree one hundred percent Jim.


Charles Peck: Still okay if we take them down.


Scott Daffron: Letís find out.


Charles Peck: Well if there on gazebo point or speedway point you know that pretty much say they come down.


Mayor Moll: you can take them down.


Don Wittman: you are the sign nazi for any city property. Any city owned property Charles Peck as permission to remove signs.


Bill Sasse: I like to make a motion we adjoin.


Charles Peck:I would like to ask if we can send a letter to speedway to take down the offending sign.


Don Wittman: I have speedway and flu shots at Walgreenís.


Mayor Moll: Are the flu shots are permitted some point in town for some period of time as an event?


Don Wittman:No one submitted anything for approval.


Charles Peck: They put that on the city right away instead of putting on their own property is it going to matter if they move them back are we still saying their not aloud to have it.


Don Wittman: itís still prohibited.


Charles Peck: How can we give them permission itís dam good thing to have.


Scott Daffron: And what defines a sandwich place.


Don Wittman: Still as to be permitted if it is submitted for approval.

Bill Sasse: Let see submitted for approval stone for sixty dollars or seventy, there are a ton of sign out there that donít have approval on them.


Scott Daffron: Thatís exactly true.


Bill Sasse: So what are we going to do to Flo Hutton say can you take the sign down she does too much for the community.


Don Wittman: Itís not Flo


Bill Sasse: Wollarm Chevelote say you have banner sign hanging out on your post they should not be there he is a darn good community person. So at some point we have to say enough is enough and we just turn our back on it.


Don Wittman: If I receive a written complete about a sign. Same thing as the zoning then I will take care of it so send me an email if your have an concern of any illegal sign in the city I will give my due attention.



Bill Sasse: made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Scott Rowley. Roll Call: Jim Chubb. yes; Scott Rowley,yes; Bill Sasse, yes; Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, yes; MOTION APPROVED.


Meeting Adjourned: 7:30pm.

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† _ ††††††††† ††††††††† ____†††††††††† ___________________

Scott Daffron, Chairman ††††††††† Date††††††††††† Julie Shaffer-Wood, Sec