City of Cortland Planning, Zoning & Building Commission met on Monday, December 13, 2010 at 7:00 P.M., at the City Administration Building, 400 N. High Street. Members present: Chairman Scott Daffron, Vice-Chairman, Jim Chubb, Bill Sasse, Charlie Peck, Absent was Scott Rowley. Also present were Law Director Patrick Wilson, Mayor Curt Moll, and Service Director, Don Wittman and the following individuals:


Tammy Mazzella ††††††††††††††††††††† 51 Brookview Dr, Cortland

Jason Smith††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† 65 Laural lane, Cortland

Kathy Smith†††††††††††††††††††††††††† 159 Topaz Trail, Cortland


Scott Daffron: Today is Monday, December 13, 2010. Iíd like to call to order the Cortland Planning, Zoning & Building Commission.

ROLL CALL: Bill Sasse, here; Scott Daffron, here; Charles Peck, here; Jim Chubb, here; Scott Rowley, asbent.


Scott Daffron: Can I have a motion for approval of commission minutes for the regular meeting held November 8, 2010?


Bill Sasse: made a motion to approved November 8, 2010 minutes, seconded by Charles Peck. ROLL CALL: Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Bill Sasse, yes.


Scott Daffron: No old business on the agenda tonight. New business the first idea is not going to be represented tonight. Need to have a motion to table 13-10. New Business for Admired Residential Svcs. 162 S. High, Cortland.

Jim Chubb: made a motion for table 13-10. Seconded by Charles Peck.

ROLL CALL: Jim Chubb, yes; Bill Sasse, yes; Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, yes.


Scott Daffron:Can I have a motion for an approval of 14-10 a replat Lot 31 & 32 ĖHidden Lake Development Plat 4.††

Bill Sasse: made a motion for approval of 14-10, seconded by Charles Peck.

Scott Daffron: Who do we have to represent this tonight?


Tammy Mazzella


Tammy Mazzella: I íam Tammy his daughter. He wants to combine his lots to build a garage on the empty lot currently.


Jim Chubb:He currently owns both.


Tammy Mazzella: He currently owns both, yes.


Jim Chubb: But their separated at the time.


Don Wittman: I do not think he wants to but I was making him do that I would not issue a zoning permit with out having the lots combined.


Bill Sasse: They were separated by permit.


Scott Daffron: No, by ordinances you canít build a garage on a separate lot. That is why it would be necessary, any questions?Seeing as none. Can we have a vote on 14-10.

ROLL CALL:Scott Daffron, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Bill Sasse, yes; Charles Peck, yes. That approves your replat.


Scott Daffron:Next on the agenda.Can I have a motion on 15-10 of lot 2 & 3 of Replat of Lot 2 ĖShepherdĎs Hill Allotment Plat 19. Bill Sasse: made a motion to approval on 15-10. Seconded by Charles Peck.


Scott Daffron: Who do we have to represent this tonight?


Jason Smith


Scott Daffron: Just a little on what we are doing here?


Jason Smith:Combining the two lots. I own both of the lotís Ií am in the process of selling the two lots but the couple that are, purchasing, they canít get financing for vacate land, so the lots need to be combined as one so they can borrow the money.


Mayor Moll: They could build a house on this other lot? If they split it again.

Jason Smith:Yes, if they split it again.


Mayor Moll:It does not preclude that.


Jason Smith:To my knowledge they have no plans to build anything on it, just maintain it the way I have just grass.


Charles Peck: I have a question for Don, more then anything else, What is this lot number going to beof the combine lots going to be.


Don Wittman: Itís going to revert back to Lot 2, which thatís what it was before the replat.


Charles Peck: Often time when we do a combine we do an A. But we did not do that this time.


Don Wittman:I ask the survey or about that and he was comfortable going with it along this line because the Shepardís Hill allotment plat 19 had two lots called 1 and 2 and when they did a replat of lot 2 they split it into what we current see lot 2 & 3.Now we are just going back to the replat going back to lot 2.


Scott Daffron: I was telling Don, past experiences happened to me, I did a similar thing where I added to a lot or the size on to my lot and then it was named lot 15 . And I have had issues with that from the get go, because it should have been lot 15 A.


Jason Smith:I think we had talked about that and you made that call to the surveyors about that.


Don Wittman: Thatís a minor change that can be done after the fact.In fact the auditor would rather see it that way. Comfortable with the way itís shown on the map. And it meets are Ordinances.


Scott Daffron: Any other questions?Seeing as none, can we have a vote on 15-10?

ROLL CALL:Bill Sasse,yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, yes. That approves your replat.

Scott Daffron:Anything else up for discussion at this time.


Charles Peck: My monthly complaint, we have those flipping sign for octagon house sitting out their in the road way every weekend, weíre doing off premise advertise for an out of town concern. And there out there every weekend. And thereís no sense picking those up because they just seem to stick them back up the next time. Is there anyway we can address these to made them go away?


Don Wittman: We have had discussion with them in the past he seems to be pretty obstinate about having the right to put them up.


Bill Sasse: Just yank them down when you see them.


Charles Peck:He really does not have that right the way itís written up. And he puts them on city property not private property.


Don Wittman:Correct they are located in the right way they are there for the day.


Charles Peck:I think they last longer then a day.


Mayor Moll: I saw him picking them up last night so.


Charles Peck: I think they go the weekend I think they come out on late Friday afternoon and they go away late Sunday sometime.


Pat Wilson: If you were going to bring it to a head and take the guy to court youíd have to have better evidence. You would have direct proof when they were there when they were taken down what right away they were in, what private property they are on they would require real specific.


Charles Peck: How much trouble will we be in if we just removed the sign and not return them. Is that going to get us in trouble?


Pat Wilson: I doubt it.


Mayor Moll: He might sue us.

Jim Chubb:When I was running one time they took my sign because they said it was on city property. They gave it back to me.


Charles Peck: I feel the guyís game.


Bill Sasse: I do have one question since that is over.


Charles Peck: Itís not over.


Bill Sasse: Those signs that a business puts in front of a house when they are putting up siding on house or something along those lines.


Mayor Moll: We have regulation for those.


Bill Sasse: Is there a size regulation? Because there is one on S. Colonial that is almost up to a bill board size. They are putting siding on the house and the thing is probably as big as the door, not that high but itís had to be up by 4 x 8 posts.


Mayor Moll: We had one that big out front here.


Bill Sasse: I have no problem with it being up there, at some point size makes a different.


Don Wittman: The construction sign while a contractor doing work on a house on the old ordinance was five days, not really sure what it is now.


Bill Sasse: Iíll dig out my book and look at it for the next meeting.


Don Wittman:I do not think it is a size restriction.


Bill Sasse: If it does not, is that something that we might want to look at, then I have no problem with the one they just stick in the ground. But when you start getting this big youíre taking it one step farther.


Mayor Moll:This is on S. Colonial?


Bill Sasse: ya, if you want to take a ride down S. Colonial you can miss it.

Don Wittman: I have seen it.


Bill Sasse: Oh ok,


Don Wittman:†† It is more of a permanent sign.


Bill Sasse: ya, it looks more like a permanent sign then temporary sign.


Jim Chubb: Is it work that they did or does that guy do the work?


Don Wittman: Theyíre doing siding on his home. It like by something.


Bill Sasse: Can miss it itís right on the sign.


Jim Chubb: Back to what Charles was bringing up.


Bill Sasse: I thought if we do not have a size restriction is it something we might want to look at those. If you want to give it some thought and bring it up another time.


Don Wittman: I donít see us revamping the sign ordinances just for that, this is one instance if becomes more of an issue.We just redid that in 2009.


Charles Peck: Perhaps we can start a folder for sign ordinances changes and just slip that in for the next time we have revisited. For those little minor things that are annoying, but not worth a full fledge change.


Bill Sasse: Thatís the thing, I just thought I would bring it up.


Scott Daffron: Just one comment to make on a sign thatís a reappearing sign that we donít seem to get a response. And it is a tough deal what were going to do with it. Maybe thatís an option where we talked to them in the past where we need that detail that is an illegal sign


Bill Sasse: Just put it across it.


Charles Peck: Maybe this would be the perfect place to try that out.


Jim Chubb: One thing we need to look at for instance the church sign out for quite a while, it was not on city property, if were going to attack that are we going to attack every body?


Scott Daffron: Well and that is the question?Originally when I said this, we basically got unresponsiveness. Someone thatís not willing to work with the confines when Don talks to them basically their ignoring us.In other situations we do not always have that.


Bill Sasse: The guy is trying to make a buck and he is in a trouble location.


Scott Daffron: Thatís true.


Bill Sasse: In a way I feel sorry for him if he wants to put his sign out on the weekend during Christmas season.


Charles Peck:But itís not just Christmas.


Bill Sasse:I know, that I understand I know he does it all year long.

Thatís the part that upsets me too.


Charles Peck: The only positive you can say about it is that the fact is he quit putting them up at speedway point and gazebo point. He at least backed away from those two locations.


Scott Daffron: Not that we should do that, but maybe thatís application for something.


Bill Sasse: Don, if we wanted to get those signs what would we do, go to city council and request the money to buy them?


Don Wittman: ya


Mayor Moll: I think we would have to change our ordinances.


Don Wittman: I donít think so.


Mayor Moll: As an enforce method maybe.


Don Wittman: Maybe just be administrate processor.


Bill Sasse: You mind giving that a try?


Pat Wilson:It still comes down to an opinion what non conforming is. Are they going to take you to court I doubt it.


Charles Peck: If we ascertain that this thing is no permit and it is in the right way. Is that certified for us to do something like that?


Pat Wilson: If itís in the right way then remove it. We have talked about before it comes down to a man power thing.


Charles Peck: The street people have been taking them down.


Mayor Moll: They are not working on weekends unless thereís blowing snow. Then we are not taking down signs.


Scott Daffron: Can I have a motion to adjourn?



Charles Peck: made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Bill Sasse:

ROLL CALL: Bill Sasse, yes; Charles Peck, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Scott Daffron, yes; Scott Rowley, absent.MOTION APPROVED.





Meeting Adjourned:_7:30 p.m.


____________________††††††† ________†† __________________

Scott Daffron, Chairman††††††† Date†††††††††† Julie Shaffer-Wood, Sec.