City of Cortland Planning, Zoning & Building Commission met on Monday, August 9, 2010 at 7:00 P.M., at the City Administration Building, 400 N. High Street. Members present: Chairman Scott Daffron, Jim Chubb, Scott Rowley and Charlie Peck.Absent was Vice-Chairman Bill Sasse. Also present were Mayor Curt Moll, Law Director Patrick Wilson and the following individual:


†††††† Jerry Carleton†††††††††† 415 Cherry Hill

†††††† George F Wrataric †††† 2805 Avalon Creek Blvd, Vienna


Scott Daffron:Today is Monday, August 9, 2010.Iíd like to call to order the Cortland Planning, Zoning & Building Commission.


ROLL CALL:Bill Sasse, absent; Scott Rowley, here; Scott Daffron, here; Charles Peck, here; Jim Chubb, here.


Scott Daffron:Can I have a motion for approval of commission minutes for the regular meeting held July 12th, 2010?


Charles Peck made a motion to approve July 12th, 2010 minutes, seconded by James Chubb.ROLL CALL:Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, yes; Scott Rowley, abstain; Jim Chubb, yes; Bill Sasse, absent.MOTION APPROVED.


Scott Daffron:We have old business first on our agenda here, I donít know, is there, probably this is a discussion we need to get into with Don here, just because of his knowledge in that area.But I donít know if anybody has any comments, any positions or anything theyíd like to make a comment on at this time?


Charlie Peck:Don would be the most knowledgeable person, I would just like to ask what are the pros and cons of doing it each way.


Atty. Patrick Wilson: Well it was brought up last time Charlie, youíll remember by Jerry for something for the City to consider.Itís too late to help him now at this point in the game.But I think his request probably gives a good picture to the City on why it might even be considered.Because in terms of development, heís saying look I could have this development put through a lot quicker if we had pyramid zoning rather than what as Don calls it a stricter zoning classification.At this stage of the game itís really a discussion topic only.We donít have any proposals from any Council members or the Mayor or anybody to move forward on it.So Iím not sure why Don wanted to talk about it tonight.


Scott Daffron:My concern with that type of zoning and something I wanted to talk with Don is getting into the situation where you have Industrial again abutted by say multi-family residential without proper buffer zones because, what are the possibilities of that situation happening again.


Charles Peck:You know to have it as an automatic given you know that you could do that, it would cause an issue.If it would be able to come before us where we can look over the plans and look for those things and give areas.


Mayor Moll:And thatís one of the reasons that we donít have this automatic changing of zoning classifications because the people that looked at it in í95 or whenever it was passed, wanted to make sure that reviews were made when the use of land was changed, whether it was upward or downward.


Jerry Carleton:Well I can understand one way but not the other.


Mayor Moll:Well it depends if you can go build a residential house in the middle of an industrial zone you donít want that to happen either.Which would happen if you had pyramid zoning.


Scott Daffron:Thatís actually whatís happened across the street here.


Mayor Moll:Thatís exactly right.Now you wind up with noise complaints and all kinds of things, or you build a house in the middle of a pig farm, you have the same kind of problem where you are allowing people to do things that are not in the best interest.


Jerry Carleton:well theyíre not abutted up to anything other than the railroad tracks.


Scott Daffron:But the potential isÖ


Mayor Moll:Weíve had complaints.


Scott Daffron:Yeah, there has actually been noise complaints from there.


Jerry Carleton:From the train?


Mayor Moll:No from the industrial operation over on Ö


Charles Peck:The sawmill and things of that nature.


Scott Daffron:That whole development went in with Industrial zoning and how did that happen number one and is that they way you want it to happen.I understand your point.


Jerry Carleton:Patrick would you be taken to task legally if someone were to say, I know itís an industrial zone and in spite of that industrial zoning adjacent to my property or maybe not adjacent to but close to, is there a problem and I know as the buyer, I beware, and I know whatís going on.


Mayor Moll:No, you do but the person buying the problem might not.


Atty. Patrick Wilson:Yeah, in that situation, youíd still be, the law still sets for the buyer beware, so if you move into a situation where there is a nuisance, most courts are going to say, look you moved in, you knew it was there, you moved into it you canít complain about it now, that would be ok.But I agree with the Mayor, when this was brought in, in í95, it was done so with the intent of having more control rather than less.


Mayor Moll:We can look at different alternatives for that kind of zoning.


Jerry Carleton:Well, yeah, but the question occur, for exactly my case, that in fact, if I have a commercial piece of property and now I want to down zone as opposed to move up.


James Chubb:To what?


Jerry Carleton:For example I have a commercial piece now thatís before you that was going to multi-family and Iím surrounded by commercial, now do you have the right to say you canít do that?


James Chubb:Right now I think we do.


Scott Daffron: It wouldnít be before us if we didnít.


Jerry Carleton:Iím just saying, the only reason Iím before you is because youíre forcing that issue.And Iím not being confrontational here, Iím just looking at the issues.


Mayor Moll:I guess listening to what you are saying, is there maybe a, I can see a reason for a review, but there may be a different process to use rather than the way it is for up versus down.So we need to look at how other cities are doing it.


Jerry Carleton: I understand that.


Scott Daffron:There may be a method like your talking about, where if you are going down, there may be a method where maybe there isnít a need for a public hearing, you know for it to take 3 months versus a month.


Mayor Moll:Thatís what Iím saying we should see what other cities do in that situation.I believe we need to have a review to keep people from building expensive houses in the middle of an industrial park, which theoretically could happen.


Jerry Carleton:If in fact that occurs if someone comes in Ö


Mayor Moll:Yeah, the builder is at fault and the buildingÖ


Jerry Carleton:Well not the builder but someone comes in and they hire a builder and says Iím the owner of the property and IÖ


Mayor Moll:I understand that Jerry, but the problem we get into is that, thatís not the owner we have a problem with, itís the next owner we have a problem with.


Jerry Carleton:Yeah.


Mayor Moll:The next guy that buys it says how in the world did you ever let this pig farm grow up next to my house when it was there 50 years before the house.They feel like they have some value taken away from them.


Jerry Carleton:I guess when youíre, if youíre the second owner and youíre buying something and Iím looking around and Curt is living next to me I want to be sure I know that.


Mayor Moll:You would, and most people would, but the thing is, it doesnít stop people from coming in here and making a lot of issues for the city.


Scott Daffron:Yeah, we had last year as simple as they built a duplex on a multi-family piece where there were other single family dwellings on multi-family zoning.We had a roomful of people.Something as simple as that.


Jerry Carleton:Iíve done that myself, I mean, very close to your house, Curt.In fact we came in to change the zoning to do that but we didnít have a roomful of people.


Mayor Moll:Yeah, and most people donít know the zoning classification.I mean, it is multi-family, most people if you stop them on the street would say no, weíre single family residential.


James Chubb:Yeah, they probably donít realize it.


Mayor Moll:No, they donít.†† People just donít realize that any piece of property could be multi-family.I have one right next door to my house.



Mayor Moll:So weíll do some more research on that Jerry and weíll talk about it as you go through this process.


Charles Peck: You will have other opportunities to speak to us Iím sure.


James Chubb:Let me bring one comment up, if somebody like yourself comes in here we meet once a month and I donít see any reason why we canít have special meetings if itís going to help people out.


Mayor Moll:Well we have, what are we on number 10 this year.


Dee Daniels:No weíre on number 6.


Mayor Moll:Weíre on issue number 6 this year, and weíve been up in the 40ís before and we have had multiple meetings, we have a provision for multiple meetings in a month.The 2nd and 4th Monday, weíve done that in the past.


James Chubb: I donít think we ought to have that every single month.


Mayor Moll: No we donít, only when we need to.


Scott Daffron:A couple of years ago in the summer we actuallyÖ


Mayor Moll:We needed it to get through the agenda items.


Jerry Carleton:I brought it up from the last meeting.Don had my application and the $200 all of that prior to the meeting, maybe because of what the ruling is that you could not have proceeded, my question was, why couldnít you have proceeded from last time and that 30 days from that last meeting to now.I asked Don that and he just said well it didnít get on the agenda.


Charles Peck: I donít think we had 30 days.


Dee Daniels:We didnít have enough time to get it on.


Mayor Moll: Thatís one of the Charter amendments this time is to drop that down to 20 days I think.For this reason exactly.


Charles Peck:And we had an early meeting this month because the1st came on a Monday.


Jerry Carleton:I guess thatís what he said was, we didnít have the full 30 days.


Dee Daniels:Exactly.


Jerry Carleton: Or maybe it would have been allowed for me to come into that meeting, because you werenít doing anything other thanÖ


Dee Daniels: Yeah.


Scott Daffron:And it has to do with advertising for the meetings and stuff like that.


Dee Daniels: Yeah, it was just a few days difference and there was just no way to put it in.


Scott Daffron: Typical bureaucracy.


Jerry Carleton:No but it is a 30 day rule.


Dee Daniels:Yeah, it has to have 30 days notification.


Jerry Carleton:We have that 30 day ruling and thatís why weíre dropping it back.


Dee Daniels: Right, exactly.


Mayor Moll:We are trying to help.


Scott Daffron:The process is slow there is no doubt there.We can move onto new business.I would like a motion 06-10 Ė set date and time for public hearing Ė zone change Ė 419 S Mecca St Ė Jerry Carleton Ė from Service District to Highway Commercial District Ė set for September 13, 2010 at 6:45 p.m.


James Chubb made a motion to set public hearing 06-10 for September 13, 2010 at 6:45 p.m., seconded by Charles Peck.ROLL CALL:James Chubb, yes; Scott Rowley, yes; Bill Sasse, absent; Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, yes. MOTION APPROVED


Scott Daffron:Anything else?


Charles Peck:Let the record show that I appreciate the communication in reference to the portable sign.

Dee Daniels:I told Don that would be a good idea if you guys knew where we stood with it since there was a discussion last month.


Scott Daffron:If thereís nothing else, can I have a motion to adjourn.


Scott Rowley made a motion to adjourn, seconded by James Chubb .ROLL CALL:Scott Daffron, yes; James Chubb, yes; Scott Rowley, yes; Charles Peck, yes, Bill Sasse, absent.MOTION APPROVED.


Meeting Adjourned: _7:17 p.m.



____________________††††††† ___________†††††† __________________

Scott Daffron, Chairman†††††††††††††††† Date†††††††††† Dee Daniels, Secretary