City of Cortland Planning, Zoning & Building Commission met on Monday, April 12, 2010 at 7:00 P.M., at the City Administration Building, 400 N. High Street. Members present: Chairman Scott Daffron, Vice-Chairman Bill Sasse, Jim Chubb and Charlie Peck.Absent was Scott Rowley. Also present were Mayor Curt Moll, Service Director Don Wittman, Law Director Patrick Wilson and the following individuals:


†††††† Mark Lueck†††††††††††††††††††† 843 Cleveland Massillon Rd, Akron

†††††† Konstantinos Spetsiotis†††††††† 168 B N Mecca


Scott Daffron:Today is Monday, April 12th, 2010. Iíd like to call to order the Cortland Planning, Zoning & Building Commission.Can we have roll?


ROLL CALL:Bill Sasse, here; Scott Rowley, here; Scott Daffron, here; Charles Peck, here; Jim Chubb, here.


Scott Daffron:Could we have a motion for approval of Commission minutes for the meeting held March 8th, 2010?


Charles Peck made a motion for approval of March minutes, seconded by James Chubb.


Scott Rowley: I wasnít here last time and I think somewhere in there I voted.


Mayor Moll:Weíll have her go through it and if there are any in error.I see at least one vote where you were absent.




Mayor Moll: Okay its on page 18.Change yes to absent.


ROLL CALL:Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, yes; Scott Rowley, abstain; Jim Chubb, yes; Bill Sasse, yes.MOTION APPROVED.


Scott Daffron:Okay, under old business tonight, we have 03-10 Ė variance request for the signs at Speedway which we discussed and tabled last month.Who do we have to speak on behalf of this tonight?


Mark Lueck:Mark Lueck.


Scott Daffron:Do we have anything to add?Any modifications, anything that you would like to present us with before we have a vote on the issue?


Mark Lueck:Yes.


Mayor Moll:Do we have a motion before we get started?


Bill Sasse made a motion for approval of 03-10.


Bill Sasse:I donít think we have to do we?


Mayor Moll: Well it was tabled, so yeah.Before you vote on it you should have a motion on the floor to discuss it.


Jim Chubb: Okay he motioned it, I will second it.


Seconded by Jim Chubb.


Scott Daffron: Okay go ahead.


Mark Lueck:Okay, one of the suggestions was going to a sign that had scrolling numbers. I did take this to our standards committee and we have used these in the past and theyíve chosen not to go with those due to the fact that thereís switches and motors and everything else that keeps going bad on them.And thatís one of the signs that I actually showed you guys was one that they were taking out with the skyline sign.So on the chance of going to this type of sign; they declined on going that way.The thing that is also to relocate our signs.We went and reviewed that.If you look at the picture there, that is on the south side, has a telephone pole and the state sign right there.These yellow guide lines also go into our property, so, the support lines, thereís really nowhere to put the signs there.If you go to the next page there, that was the north side of the property and as you can see if we go to a monument sign where the cars and that pull in there youíre not going to see our sign.There is room to put one, but that angles down.There parking on both sides.


Jim Chubb: Thereís not much there soÖ


Mark Lueck: It would be right on the property line.So itís just not a valid place to put a sign.†† Which brings us back to the actual variance that would be for the electronic changing and the height, which Iím addressing the height right there.For the electronic variable, you guys have actually already allowed LEDís in the city with electronic changing.Iím just kind of throwing it out there.I donít know if the first two asked for them or requested them, but that is an electronic sign, it is LED and it is changeable.


Bill Sasse:Open and closed signs were already allowed.Electronic ones were allowed.


Mark Lueck: Well our last meeting was about the LEDís being too bright.


Scott Daffron: I think these were almost considered directional signs when we discussed them werenít they?


Don Wittman:I donít think they were actually even discussed.


Charles Peck:They did not come before this board.I think they were directional signs such as enter and exit and things of that nature did not come before this board.


Don Wittman: Mr. Lueck is correct in that they are changed electronically by a switch inside, Open to close versus the ATM lane.I donít know if they can change it.


Mark Lueck: I didnít go in and ask anybody.


Don Wittman:Right.


Charles Peck:I think itís just on or off.


Mayor Moll:It might go red.


Bill Sasse:They didnít come to us with that electronic ATM sign.


Scott Daffron:I donít remember.


Bill Sasse:No I donít either.And that I would remember.


Scott Daffron: One additional question that Iíve been thinking about is that one of the reasons youíre giving us for using that height of sign is because of contact with trucks that come in to fill your tanks.


Mark Lueck: Correct.


Scott Daffron:But the truck simply pulls in the end over the tanks.


Mark Lueck:Well no.


Scott Daffron:It never drives through.


Mark Lueck:Not that truck, customer trucks, deliveries or whatever.Not just deliveries to us but other box trucks.




Charles Peck:I can understand that.


Jim Chubb:Even youíre (inaudible)


Mark Lueck: Correct, semiís or big box trucks.


Jim Chubb:And trailers.


Mark Lueck: So really the placement of the signs weíve addressed it, thereís really no where to go with it to be able to see our sign.On the one side there is nowhere to put a sign so weíre back to the height and the electronic LEDís.If you drive down, the neonís that you see out there are just as bright as these because the issue, theyíre actually a lot brighter than the LEDís.If you drive down the road here, youíll see plenty of those.




Mark Lueck: Well if you want a runway strip just look at the car dealership right there beside the store.


Scott Daffron: Anybody have any other questions?Seeing no other questions we can put this to a vote, Don?


ROLL CALL:Jim Chubb, yes; Scott Rowley; yes; Bill Sasse, no; Scott Daffron, no; Charles Peck, no.MOTION FAILED


Scott Daffron: That means your variance has failed.The next step would be the Zoning Appeals Board.


Jim Chubb:They meet on a need basis, they donít have a schedule.


Don Wittman:Yeah, you can call me tomorrow or call Dee and we can set forth the procedure by which you can go forward with the appeal to the Zoning Board of Appeals and then from then if you have an unfavorable decision then the company can decide whether to take it to Common Pleas Court.


Charles Peck:I do have one thing,I donít know if youíd understand what influences part of our thinking on this, but we as a board should consider how many separate variances we want to consider, so as not to be contrary to our own ordinance, which is 1321.19(c) and that says ďdoes sign comply with all other requirements?ĒAnd the direction weíre heading, is the sign, thereís three different things that it does not comply with the following requirements.One we might think about it, two you might, but now we have three.


Mark Lueck:The only place on the lot that we can actually move it weíve allowed the city to put their sign.


Charles Peck:Well itís not a move thing; itís the height, the LED changeable copy and multiple signs on the premises that are against the regulations that we have.There are three things that are against our regulations that we have and we just recently updated this.So we would not be upholding our own regulations I believe, if we were to say go ahead and do this.


Bill Sasse:And itís nothing against Speedway.I want you to understand that.We sit here and we try to look at what is Cortland going to look like 10, 20, 50, 100 years from now.And thatís what we try to make our decisions off of, and thatís all it is.


Mark Lueck: Thatís fine


Charles Peck:If not us then who, if not then when, thatís not me, thatís a (inaudible) We tried to improve the sign ordinances and this is going backwards on threeÖ


Scott Daffron:Three steps back not just one.


Charles Peck:Yeah, three steps.


Mark Lueck:And if there was any other way, I mean, thereís just no where to put it and height-wise being where itís at, thereís no changing that.


Scott Daffron: Somebodyís got an idea.


Charles Peck: I canít believe in a town like Hudson or Poland that Speedway doesnít have a gas station that does not utilize the typical skyscraper LED signs.


Mark Lueck: Well in Hudson youíre not allowed to have it outside (inaudible).We actually did have a store there and we closed it down because of the difficulties.


Jim Chubb:In Orange up there itís the same way, theyíre all, the highest sign is 8í high.


Mark Lueck:And that was something that we did consider was going to the monument style sign, but where are you going to put it?Thatís the thing is there is just no where to go with it.Alright, well, thank you.


Scott Daffron: Next, moving onto new business, can we have a motion for approval of 05-10A Ė New Business Ė Four Star Diner Ė 168 N Mecca Ė Konstantinos Spetsiotis Ė diner Ė 20 employees, open Mon Ė Sat Ė 7am to 9pm and Sun 7am to 4pm?

Bill Sasse made a motion for approval of 05-10A, seconded by Charles Peck.


Scott Daffron:Who do we have to speak on behalf of this tonight?


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:Konstantinos Spetsiotis.


Scott Daffron:†† Just tell us a little bit about your business.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:What Iím planning to do?


Scott Daffron: Yes, just what youíre planning to do with your business.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:Iím planning on opening up a real nice diner.The place looks pretty nice and Iím planning on putting a little touch to it.Just what it said, maybe more than 20 employees, try and hire right now.I didnít know anything about before they even told be about the sign, that I had problem.But the gentleman that told me is the one that Iíve ordered to make the sign.


Scott Daffron: And weíll address the sign on the next issue.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:Okay.


Scott Daffron:Right now weíre just looking at getting a little information on your actual diner.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:Anything you would like to ask me?


Bill Sasse:Is the Fire Department okay with it?


Chief Bill Novakovich: We did, one of my inspectors had gone down, done an inspection, gave them a list of things, I donít know if he spoke directly to you or one of the people there, but a list of items that needed to be done.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:Me.


Chief Bill Novakovich: I know we havenít been back yet to do a re-inspection, but I do know you had the ABC Fire Extinguisher Company came out.They did do an inspection on the hood system.Because I know that was a concern in the past was the hood system.There were exit lights and such but these are all items that we do on a routine inspection anyway so it shouldnít be taken into consideration on the passage.But did anyone stop at the station yet, Iím not aware of, to get the form for the Knox Box, the key box?


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:No, but I think the gentleman who came over, he left me one of those.


Chief Bill Novakovich:He left you the paperwork?


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:Yeah.


Chief Bill Novakovich:Okay.So it hasnít come in yet, but Iím assuming you are in the process of ordering or have already ordered it.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis: No I havenít ordered it yet.


Chief Bill Novakovich: Okay.


Jim Chubb:One question I have would be that there is more than a restaurant in there, there used to be a radio station on the second floor.Are you not going to use that of course?


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:No.


Jim Chubb:Well are we checking that area too?I mean, thatís part of the building isnít it?




Jim Chubb:I know youíre not putting anything up there, but I donít know the last timeÖ


Scott Daffron: You donít own the building correct?


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:No, Iím just leasing.


Chief Bill Novakovich:In answer to your question Jim, when, like for the inspection for his business, or the business he wants to open, we will be inspect the occupied area, that he will be occupying and see that every area that he is occupying is up to code.I believe the county will probably be in also, because theyíre the ones that give an occupancy permit, we donít issue that.


Jim Chubb: So we donít look at the rest of the building that theyíre not using then.


Chief Bill Novakovich:Correct.


Mayor Moll:Unless they change the use or the intent.


Scott Daffron: Any other questions?


Charles Peck:You didnít list the number of parking spaces you have.Do you have an estimate?


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:To be honest I donít even know, because I think there are two or three parking lots involved in that.Both sides, because the court is right next to that, but there is a lot of parking spaces.


Scott Daffron: You have an aerial right?


Mayor Moll:You can count those Charlie if you wanted to know a number.


Charles Peck:And part B of that, you are saying you will have 20 employees, how many will be on duty at one given time?


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:In a shift?


Charles Peck: Yes.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis: Probably more than 10 right now, just in the beginning to see where itís going to go.


Mayor Moll:Thereís about 75 parking places Charlie.Four rows of 13 and then some others.


Scott Daffron: Thatís a lot of parking.


Don Wittman:Yeah, based on that this is a continued use of an existing building, itís really just changing the name.It was a diner, now itís a new diner; thereís really never been any parking issues.It currently complies with all the parking requirements as set forth by the ordinance.


Scott Daffron: And itís more than Locos Amigos.


Charles Peck: That would be true.


Jim Chubb: Do we need to talk about 10í?


Mayor Moll:Not at this specific hearing.


Don Wittman:What is before you is to approve the business as meeting the zoning classification; the intended use will meet the zoning classification of Service District.


Scott Daffron: Any questions?Can we have a vote?

ROLL CALL:Scott Daffron, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Scott Rowley, yes; Charles Peck, yes; Bill Sasse, yes.MOTION APPROVED.


Don Wittman: That approves your business.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:Thank you.


Scott Daffron:We need a motion to approve to set a date and time for the variance request for your sign.Variance request is that it will exceed the height requirement of 14í and to exceed the size requirement of 48 sq. ft.Set this for May 10th, 2010 at 6:45 p.m.


Bill Sasse made a motion to set public hearing seconded by Charles Peck.


Scott Daffron:And that puts you up with issues just like Speedway has except youíre not asking for electronic variable signs.


Mayor Moll:Heís just changing the panels.


Scott Daffron:Right.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:Right Iím just changing the panels.


Don Wittman:Just to differentiate this, if Speedway changes their sign, all they have to do is change the inside the truth is thatís just a maintenance item and thatís not a new sign.They will still be in non-conformance with three of our ordinances as far as the height, the number, and the size.With this it will just be the height and the size.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:Excuse me, if I can just add something, until we have the next meeting, I can not put the sign on becauseÖweíre supposed to open this Monday coming, the 19th.And itís kind ofÖ


Scott Daffron:We canít give approval for it.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis: Iím just asking, because like I said I wasnít ready for it and I didnít even know it.What am I supposed to do?Not put it up?Wait until the meeting is over?Put them up and then come to the meeting?I donít want to go against anything.


Don Wittman:My recommendation would be to cover the existing sign that is there and put some sort of temporary sign up with your name on it, new business, now open, grand opening, what not.Then once this board votes on the new sign then you will know whether or not you can just change the panels out or if something more extensive is going to be required such as reducing the size of the existing sign and lower it.But that will be discussed at the next meeting. Right now as far as your need to advertise opening use it as a temporary.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:I canít open Monday without a sign up.


Scott Daffron:What Don is suggesting is even like a banner type sign.Something that you can use, anything like that you can use on a temporary basis.


Bill Sasse:Is this new sign thatís going in, just slide in?


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:Itís exactly as it is, this comes out and the new one goes in as Four Star Diner.


Mayor Moll:The other thing is the risk he runs if you donít approve it heís going to take it down.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:Right.


Bill Sasse:So if you put it in itís like a banner.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:Yeah, you just slide it in.


Jim Chubb:Well heís already made it so weíre not going to really saving him that.


Bill Sasse:Itís a banner, so all weíre doing is saying put a banner in for now.


Mayor Moll:Weíre not telling him to put his sign in.


Scott Daffron:Yeah I canít tell you to take your chances.




Scott Daffron:Will it change the decision made up by this board?


Charles Peck:No.


Jim Chubb:No.


Bill Sasse:No.


Bill Sasse:So if you put it up before hand it wonít change our decision one way or another.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis: Okay then.Because I didnít want, Iím not saying thatÖI just didnít want to leave here and go put the sign up thinking you gentlemenÖokay he just ignored us.Thatís why Iím asking all these questions.Because I already ordered it, because I didnít know it.He started working on it and he goes did you get the permit from theÖThatís why Iím just saying.


Don Wittman:Gus and Sal put their sign in before they even came to this board.


Konstantinos Spetsiotis:And when I heard it thatís when I came up here and talked and thatís when I came to the meeting.


Mayor Moll:Thatís fine.We donít have any sign police.




Scott Daffron:Can we have a vote on the motion thatís at hand which is to set the actual time and date?


Bill Sasse:I think we did already.


Don Wittman:No we have a motion.


ROLL CALL:Scott Rowley, yes; Bill Sasse, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, yes. MOTION APPROVED


Bill Sasse made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Scott Rowley.ROLL CALL:Bill Sasse, yes; Scott Rowley, yes; Charles Peck, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Scott Daffron, yes.MOTION APPROVED


Meeting Adjourned: _7:25 p.m.



____________________††††††† ___________†††††† __________________

Scott Daffron, Chairman†††††††††††††††† Date†††††††††† Dee Daniels, Secretary