City of Cortland Planning, Zoning & Building Commission met on Monday, March 8, 2010 at 7:00 P.M., at the City Administration Building, 400 N. High Street. Members present: Chairman Scott Daffron, Vice-Chairman Bill Sasse, Jim Chubb and Charlie Peck.Absent was Scott Rowley. Also present were Mayor Curt Moll, Service Director Don Wittman, Law Director Patrick Wilson and the following individuals:


††††††††††††† Russell Patt††††††††††††† 4840 New Road, Austintown

††††††††††††† Robin Kadvan†††††††††††† 4840 New Road, Austintown

††††††††††††† Hope Acri††††††††††††††† 101 Oakdale

††††††††††††† Mark Lueck†††††††††††††† 843 Cleveland Massillon Rd, Akron




Scott Daffron:Today is Monday, March 8th, 2010.Iíd like to call to order the Cortland Planning, Zoning & Building Commission for purpose of public hearing 03-10 Ė Variance request Ė Signs Ė Speedway Ė 548 S High Ė†† The variance request is put to us as an all or nothing, three variances within the single request: to exceed the height requirement of 12í, to exceed the number of pole mounted signs, and to allow electronically variable message signs.Could we have roll?


ROLL CALL:Bill Sasse, here; Scott Rowley, absent; Scott Daffron, here; Charles Peck, here; Jim Chubb, here.


Scott Daffron:And who do we have here to represent this variance request?


Mark Lueck: Mark Lueck, from Speedway.


Scott Daffron:And if you would give us, present us with your variance.


Mark Lueck:What weíre requesting is that we can change our existing sign prices to the new LED style.Reducing the size of the sign from 48 sq. ft. to the 32 sq. ft.The reason for the variance would be that thereís really no room if we drop those signs to the ground; theyíre going to get hit.I mean they are pretty expensive and thatís why we would like to keep them where they are at.


Mayor Moll: Youíre going to keep them the same height that they are now?


Mark Lueck: Correct.Weíll just reduce the size of the sign itself from 48 to 32 sq. ft.The biggest thing is itís a real safety issue.That was the technology back then and now you have people out there trying to change the signs going to where they can just push a button and have it change instantly.†† Saves a lot of time, plus having the (inaudible) that they use to change the numbers themselves, when theyíre trying to put that up their up theyíre using a 2Ē suction cup, and getting it up in the air.


Mayor Moll:Do you know what the height is now?


Mark Lueck:Right not itís at 19í.


Mayor Moll:Both of them are the same?


Mark Lueck:Correct.


Mayor Moll:Okay.Thatís to the top of the sign or the bottom?


Mark Lueck: That would be to the top.


Mayor Moll: Okay.


Charlie Peck: Whatís your dimensions at the bottom?


Mark Lueck: It would probably be 15í.


Charlie Peck:Do you need all 15 of those feet?


Mark Lueck:We need at least 13í6Ē for the trucks to go underneath it.So thereís a foot and half difference.


Scott Daffron: Any other questions?


Bill Sasse:Is this the time to bring up anything?


Scott Daffron:This would be the time to ask questions.


Bill Sasse:My question is, what research have they done to see if there was any other way besides LED lights.


Mark Lueck:I actually have here some signs that she said, these are the scrolling signs.


Bill Sasse: I took those, well I didnít take those pictures, but I did take these.The reason I was asking is there is quite a few other ways of doing this without going with LEDís.These are all switched from the inside.These are all just changed on the machine on the inside, nobody has to go outside or anything like that.Because you are requesting a variance, I was wondering why you didnít go with these.


Mayor Moll:They would need to get a variance either way.


Scott Daffron:These would need a variance as well.


Bill Sasse:Right, they would need a variance as well.


Charles Peck: We would reduce one area of the request.

Scott Daffron: No it would still be an electronically changeable sign.


Mayor Moll: Yeah.


Bill Sasse:Itís not an electronic sign.


Mayor Moll:It would still meet the definition of electronically variable signs.


Charles Peck:Okay.


Don Wittman:A sign whose content is changed by electronic means.


Bill Sasse:Well I guess what Iím trying to do is get away with LED lights and go with something like this instead.


Scott Daffron: The concern weíve had with LED lights in the past is there seems to be no method to control brightness nor define brightness.And thereís a lot of, if you approach an LED sign from a distance it seems to be very piercing.You see it from a long way away and thatís been a concern within this board with the LED lights that they show up so vibrant compared to the background, especially at night.


Mark Lueck: They do, but these here, and I do have letter from the sign company, they are dim.They have a control, so when itís brighter outside the dimness will actually increase and as it gets darker the dimness will decrease.


Scott Daffron:I understand that but the problem, the concerns seem to be thereís no standard, nor a way to develop a standard, because what is bright and what is dim?Itís a relative issue.And Iím sure youíre familiar with what Iím speaking of, you know, there are some vibrant LED signs out there.


Mark Lueck: Yes sir.


Scott Daffron:I mean the concern is that once the sign is in there, thereís no way to control it because there is no way to control it because there is no standard. Thatís just a concern.


Bill Sasse:Right. Another concern is even though if somebody else wanted one they would have to come for a variance; it would give them standing saying ĎOh, they have ití.


Mark Lueck:Right.


Bill Sasse:So I guess my question was did you look at other alternatives like the automatic changing ones?


Mark Lueck:Iím not familiar with that but I did go to my sign manufacturer.


Bill Sasse: And they do have something available like that?


Mark Lueck:Actually she said, and I can give you her number and some pictures, itís basically a dying thing, theyíre trying to do away with mechanical controlled type of signs, that there is a scroll sign and thatís one they changed out this year is also one that flips and she told me that they were no longer supported.


Bill Sasse:Right, these are brand new, the ones I showed.The one at Sheetz and Country Fair has them.


Mark Lueck:Iíd have to check into who their manufacturer is.


Bill Sasse:Do you want a copy of this?


Jim Chubb:He found out at Country Fair they have a place right there at the counter that changes the outside.


Bill Sasse:Right, same with Sheetz.I mean thatís a new technology.


Jim Chubb:I went to a 7-11 and it was just so, so bright.If we didnít the rule not to have something like that and somebody else comes along and says they want the same thing, we would have no way of controlling that in our town once we give that out.I mean thatís just my opinion.


Mayor Moll:I mean if you go over to Champion on Rt. 45, youíll see Speedway and First Place Bank competing for the redness in the sky.Itís really, really bright.


Bill Sasse: RightÖ. (inaudible)


Jim Chubb: I thousand percent appreciate the thought that goes in there and how difficult it is to change those now.


Mayor Moll:In the winter itís difficult and in the summer itís dangerous.


Scott Daffron: When you bring up the safety issue.The safety issue really stems around the placement of the signs currently, because they are in the traffic area.Is there any consideration of possibly moving the signs?


Mark Lueck: If you look at your plat plan of the site, the only place to really put it is right where the city has their sign.


Charles Peck: Or you can put it parallel with the building.


Scott Daffron:Well you could on 46, thereís parking on the Rt. 5 side.On Rt. 46 side, thereís grass back there.


Charles Peck:That way it would get it out of the way of trucks.I look at these pictures you sent in and see pieces of tail light or something to show that there is a safety hazard.Well I look at that as being a safety obstruction for the citizens of Cortland.You know this sign was so ill placed that the people constantly hit it and Iím not saying we have the best drivers in the world but we donít have (inaudible) Iím sure.So if these signs will be placed in the same locations, we can still expect the citizens of Cortland to bang their cars up, even though your folks arenít out there.I was looking for other alternative places and other alternative spots, have you ever looked at some low profile signs compatible with maybe perhaps your neighbor across the street, Walgreenís, has put in?And possibly find a location that would work on that.Similar to these.I know these are not your brands, but I mean these are here.I canít believe your company doesnít operate in cities that you know that donít have some questions about skyscraper signs or beacon signs.


Mark Lueck:We do monument signs as well, weíre just looking at the plot plan that we have existing and going from there.


Charles Peck:Back in the area where the phone booth was there at an angle or back in here, I donít know, Iím not an expert in this. But what Iím saying is we look at these signs and they certainly arenít really in conformance and we go ahead this time and we say theyíre grandfathered, you know, hands off.But if we go ahead and make these changes you know, this stuff on our hands now.About the next time someone backs into that sign and says why did you let them put a sign there. (inaudible)


Mark Lueck:The ideal spot is out at the peak, where the city sign is.


Scott Daffron:What if and this is just a point of discussion.If you come some where on here and some where back here?††


Mark Lueck: Iíd have to look at it.I know thereís a bunch of bushes back there (inaudible)


Scott Daffron:And thatís just going along with the images youíve taken of the sign being backed into.I mean that was just a thought I had.


Mayor Moll:The placement really has nothing to do with this other than the fact they might be able to have them shorter. It has nothing to do with the request for LED or electronically changeable.


Scott Daffron:Right, but the variance request is for 3 different items and not strictly the electronic variable signs.


Mayor Moll:And not on the placement.


Don Wittman: And let me speak to that, the whole issue was, if theyíre changing the content of the sign, and now itís not just a maintenance issue.And now the pre-existing signs, which now do not comply with our sign ordinance as far as the number and the height needs to be addressed.And that was the safest was to go through that and include that in the variance request. Now if they want to come in, this being precipitated by, theyíre changing out the panels.Theyíre going to do that regardless on how you vote on this.Or if you donít approve the variance, the signs will be upgraded.At this point in time, theyíre just looking to upgrade to the technology thatís utilized by the company.Bill did you have a chance to get the size of those signs at Sheetz and Country Fair?I mean are they over 100 sq. ft.


Bill Sasse: I looked at a bunch of different ones and they can come in any different size.Country Fair is smaller than Sheetz.Thereís a BP inÖ


Don Wittman:Well it looks like those signs would violate our size requirement.


Bill Sasse:They come in smaller sizes, Don.I mean they can come in any size that is requested.


Jim Chubb:Youíre right they violate our size.


Bill Sasse:Right, the Sheetz does that I have in the picture, but the BP inÖI want to say Boardman, but itís down in that area, with a much, much smaller one and I went in there and I said to the guy, you have to put them up, and he said no itís added from the back...


Mark Lueck: I just went to our sign manufacturer and thatís who we use exclusively.


Bill Sasse: Yeah, I went into the Sheetz down here and the guy took me into the back and showed me how they do it and everything.You just punch it in and away it goes.


Scott Daffron:I guess Don, with some of the discussion weíre having.It isnít so much you know what is included in the variance.If the variance fails maybe it gives them things they can look at again.


Atty. Patrick Wilson:Thatís true, but you canít act as a Board on an issue thatís not in front of you.You have to address the requested variance thatís in front of you.The discussion went off the beaten track to other issues.


Bill Sasse: Thank you.


Scott Daffron: We vote on this in the regular meeting.


Mark Lueck:Are we all done then?


Bill Sasse:No, no that was just the public hearing.


Scott Daffron:Do we have anybody in the audience that would like to speak for the variance?Anybody that would like to speak against?Seeing none, can I have a motion to close public hearing 03-10?


Charles Peck made a motion to close public hearing, seconded by Jim Chubb.ROLL CALL:Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, yes; Scott Rowley, absent; Jim Chubb, yes; Bill Sasse, yes.MOTION APPROVED.




Scott Daffron:Today is Monday, March 8th, 2010.Iíd like to call to order the Cortland Planning, Zoning & Building Commission.Dee, can we have roll?


ROLL CALL:Jim Chubb, here; Scott Rowley, absent; Bill Sasse, here; Scott Daffron, here; Charles Peck, here.


Scott Daffron:Can I have a motion for approval of Commission minutes for the regular meeting held February 8th, 2010?


Jim Chubb made a motion for approval of minutes, seconded by Charles Peck ROLL CALL:Scott Daffron, yes; Jim Chubb yes; Scott Rowley, absent; Charles Peck, yes; Bill Sasse, yes.MOTION APPROVED.


Scott Daffron: No old business on our agenda, onto new business.Can I have a motion for approval of 03-10 Ė variance request Ė signs for Speedway 548 S High St Ė Further discussion and vote?

Bill Sasse made a motion to approve 03-10, seconded by Jim Chubb.


Scott Daffron:Is there anything you would like to add? This is the point in the meeting now, weíre out of the public hearing and in the regular meeting where we vote.


Mark Lueck: I would appreciate, I mean we went to the sign company we have and I will, if thatís what it takes I can look into another company, but this is who we deal with exclusively.And they did provide the letter saying that this is from the technology that is out there.


Charles Peck:Is this your local company or is this Speedway International?


Mark Lueck:The parent company.


Charles Peck:The parent company.This sign company does all Speedway signs no matter where the Speedway is located?


Mark Lueck:Correct.


Bill Sasse:So they have access to everybody?


Mark Lueck:Yeah.


Charles Peck:So we canít be the first people that (inaudible)


Jim Chubb:They have the capability of doing various types of signs.


Mark Lueck:I think they do LEDís.Iím not going toÖtheyíve made signs for Sunoco, Marathon.


Bill Sasse:So theyíre pretty broad based as far as what they do.


Mayor Moll:So youíre saying, I mean Iím trying to understand, what your saying is, if this was a different technology and did not include the LED you would not have a problem with the rest of this variance?


Jim Chubb:I personally would not.


Charles Peck:I would be receptive, I would encourage the relocation of the poles but I would be receptive to the variances if it didnít have the LED technologies.


Bill Sasse:Ditto.


Don Wittman:Even though the manufacturer says that that technology is going by way of the dinosaurs.


Bill Sasse:Technology that they enclosedÖ


Don Wittman:A person in the industry, thatís their business.


Bill Sasse:Don, they enclosed whatís called scrolling, the other ones are not scrolling.There is another technology out there besides what they had.


Scott Daffron:We have a variance request before us for something you know is what it is.Our options are to vote on it or table it.By tabling it I donít whether there are any options that would do what you want to do.


Atty. Patrick Wilson:And that would be up to Speedway to come back, if they table it, put it on the agenda for the next meeting.


Scott Daffron:And this is what I wondered, without going through the whole variance again.Basically weíre looking if you have any other options.


Jim Chubb:If we table this, that means theyíre just going to come back with the same thing, that doesnít meanÖ


Scott Daffron:It means possibly theyíre going to come back, they could come back and say this is what we are presenting before you and weíd like you to vote on it.


Atty. Patrick Wilson:Yeah, but the problem you would run into is if you, for instance if you put it on the April agenda.Youíve already had the public hearing.The only issue before you would be this particular variance request.If they amend it, substantially amend it, you would have to go back to the public hearing.So I think your options are more limited.


Mayor Moll:But still the technology involved in accomplishing the sameÖ


Atty. Patrick Wilson:Well they would withdrawÖokay, I guess in that theory, if they came back, we reschedule it for April, they came back and said weíre still going to request the variance for the height requirement, weíll withdraw the variance request for the electronic variable sign.


Mayor Moll:We couldnít do that.Not if they came back with a different technology.




Scott Daffron: I guess my whole reason for asking that is whether you know now Speedway knowing more of our position, whether they can formulate an alternative.Before you donít really know our position and does this give youÖthatís all Iím trying to work into it.


Atty. Patrick Wilson:I see where youíre headed Scott, but your options really are limited I think you need to act on this request.If itís not something thatís acceptable, they can come back with it in a different form.


Don Wittman:I guess if weíre looking at the alterative technology that weíre looking at the non-LED and weíre on the same page that that falls into an electronic variable message sign, in which itís a sign that can be changed by electronic means, even though it does not have an electronic display.It thinks that would still be within the same variance request amending the use of the technology from a LED to an automatically changing price panel.


Atty. Patrick Wilson:So it still falls under the same variance request.


Mayor Moll:It says on the request to allow electronically variable message signs, it does not say what the technology


Atty. Patrick Wilson:If it were without LED they would be receptive.


Mayor Moll:Well thatís the problem.


Charles Peck:The picture submitted does show the red LED.


Bill Sasse:The ones that they want to use are LEDís.


Atty. Patrick Wilson:But Donís point and the Mayorís point are well taken that the substance of the variance request would be the same as what was covered at the public hearing that way if it were tabled tonight and set for another month and they came in and removed the LED portion of it you could vote on what was proposed tonight, without going back to another public hearing.


Don Wittman:So I guess the question posed at this point would be whether Mr. Lueck would want to have this, take another look at the technology or you can have this board vote on as submitted.Then if itís not approved you can appeal it to the Zoning Appeals.Not to put you on the spot.


Mark Lueck:I mean we can table it but, and we can look into, but Iím pretty sure this is what they want and this is what theyíll go with.I mean we deal exclusively with one sign company and thatís why I asked her to write a letter stating the type of technology.I could go with this but Iím pretty sure weíre not going to change out for that.

Charles Peck:You maybe got the impression that we donít look with favor on the LED changeable message technology in this city.You pretty much understand thatís how the vote might go if you ask for an up or down vote.


Mark Lueck:Yes.I mean Iím just here asking and...


Charles Peck:And weíre just trying to do ourís.Weíre trying to offer alternatives.Some of us I think have put a lot of miles on our cars trying to find some suitable alternatives to present.


Jim Chubb: As he said, I think you would be further ahead to request us to table this at the present time then to start over.If you come back and say no we canít do any different, then like he said, Iím not going to guaranteeÖI personally, would go with the height and the two, but I am after going and seeing some of these LEDís, I really personally not in favor.I would prefer... Iím going to make a motion that we table this.


Jim Chubb made a motion to table 03-10 until April 12, 2010, seconded by Bill Sasse.ROLL CALL:Scott Rowley, Absent; Bill Sasse, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Scott Daffron, no; Charles Peck, yes.MOTION TO TABLE PASSED.


Mark Lueck:All I can do is take it back to them.I will have to go back and find out who the manufacturer is of this sign and see if they are willing to go outside of what we have now.


Mayor Moll:The message is pretty clear, aesthetically, this Board does not like the LED.




Don Wittman:You brought it up then you voted it down.


Scott Daffron:We have just simply said that there is going to be no change, so I do not believe anything brought before us in a month from now is going to change from what weíve seen tonight.


Jim Chubb:I think it gives him an opportunity.


Scott Daffron:But honestly it is his choice whether he wants that opportunity.


Jim Chubb:This is true but it gives him the opportunity.




Charles Peck: Could we think outside the box as far as how we do the sign?Do they have to be on top of those existing poles?Could we maybe consider some of these ground mounted things?You know, could we think about, is there a place to put those down where the phone booth used to be or back towards the back of the building.


Mayor Moll:We have to be real careful with obstruction to traffic.


Charles Peck:I understand.There are some things in our regulations that talk about obstructing intersections and corner lots Ö


Scott Daffron:And honestly we want your store to look good.


Bill Sasse:We all like the girls there.We donít want them out there in the middle of winter changing signs, butÖ


Atty. Patrick Wilson:You do understand thatís not in this variance request.


Bill Sasse:I understand that.


Atty. Patrick Wilson:Asking for that is for another day.


Charles Peck:Iím just asking to think outside the box.


Atty. Patrick Wilson:When you are done here, feel free to call back to the city if you have any questions.


Scott Daffron: Just one comment, if by chance they were to review this and come up with another solution to it that deviated slightly from the original variance request we would need another variance request.


Atty. Patrick Wilson:It would depend on the deviation.Substantial deviation then yes.


Mayor Moll:If itís still an electronically variable sign, then no.


Scott Daffron:Well no, Iím saying, they could take it back and come up with ideas that we donít have.


Jim Chubb:But if itís electronically correctedÖ


Scott Daffron:Well Iím not even talking about electronics; Iím talking about placement, orÖ


Mayor Moll:Thatís different.


Atty. Patrick Wilson:Then that would be a substantial deviation.


Scott Daffron: And thatís all Iím asking.


Atty. Patrick Wilson:Okay. Yeah.


Scott Daffron:Next on the agenda, can I have a motion for approval of 04-10A- New Business Ė Everything Trendy Ė 450 S High St Ė Hope Acri & Robin Kadvam Ė retail Ė open 5 days a week 9am to 7pm Ė 4 to 5 parking spaces behind the building, 1 handicap parking spot next to the building?


Bill Sasse made a motion for approval of 04-10A, seconded by Jim Chubb.


Scott Daffron:Who do we have here to speak on behalf of this tonight?


Hope Acri:I am Hope Acri.


Scott Daffron:And just tell us a little bit of what your plan is for here.


Hope Acri: We just want to do a small retail boutique.Clothing, shoes, handbags, jewelry, nothing out of the ordinary.


Charles Peck: Is this new or consignment?


Hope Acri:New.We are going to have a few used things, but in a separate area.They are going to be separated from the new items.


Charles Peck:Number of employees you have zero.


Hope Acri:Well itís just her and I. Weíre not hiring anybody.


Charles Peck:So there will be one or both of you on site at one time?

Hope Acri:Absolutely.


Charles Peck:And that would be it?


Hope Acri:Yes.


Charles Peck:The reason I asked thatís for the parking.


Bill Sasse:Is a Knox box necessary here?

Bill Novakovich:Yeah, itís a new business. I had a couple of guys visit from the station today.Gave them the literature on it and the order form.

Mayor Moll:Thereís not one there?


Bill Novakovich:There was with the previous business, but they took it with them.


Don Wittman:Can we stop people from taking them with them?


Bill Novakovich:No, itís once they get where theyíre going theyíll have to get them re-keyed.Our key only fits ours.


Don Wittman:No, I understand that.


Scott Daffron: How many square feet is that?Itís not listed on here.


Hope Acri:Iíve been trying to get a hold of the landlord and heís very, very hard to get a hold of.I donít know the square footage of that.


Dee Daniel:Iím sorry Scott, I meant to look that up on the Auditorís site and it slipped my mind.


Scott Daffron: I meant to too.


Mayor Moll:†† Itís not very big.


Scott Daffron: I know.And the parking lot out back, I couldnít remember, was that ever paved?


Mayor Moll:No.


Scott Daffron:No.Thatís stillÖ


Dee Daniels: That is one of the things that we told them, when the restaurant was there, we had told them that they had a certain period of time that it would then have to be paved.


Scott Daffron:Do you remember what that period of time was?


Dee Daniels:I want to say a year. Because thatís what weíve given other businesses is a yearís time, then they would have to have it paved.


Scott Daffron:I wasnít sure if that had ever been paved.Has that ever been brought up?The parking lot?


Hope Acri:I have a picture of the parking lot but no, nothing about the pavement, no.I mean itís hard to see now because its snow covered still.


Don Wittman:What theyíre referring to is we have a dustless surface portion for parking in commercial, actually I think its city wide, houses.But at which point you can apply for, itís not a variance, but this board can issue stipulations on that.


Charles Peck: Could grant some time, yeah.I mean certainly we canít expect that to happen with the weather this stage of the year.


Don Wittman: Or like the 1st year of operation.So when the Mexican take-out place went in, they put in that parking so that they could meet the parking requirements but they were not willing to resurface, put asphalt on it, because it was such a new business.


Member of the Audience:That would fall on the tenant, not the owner?


Don Wittman:It falls on the business.


Mayor Moll:Itís the responsibility of one of them and it doesnít really make any difference it would be up to you though to determine who did it.


Atty. Patrick Wilson:And you would work with the landlord.


Don Wittman:And actually, I donít think, I mean I would have to look more into that to see if the material thatís there does qualify as dustless because as recycled asphalt product thereís no dust that comes out with that.


Jim Chubb:Yeah, thereís two ways to look at it, it doesnít have to be concrete or black-top.


Mayor Moll:It just has to be dustless.


Jim Chubb: It has to be dustless.


Bill Sasse: Scott, this is the first thing you and I worked on when we came to zoning.


Scott Daffron: Yeah.


Don Wittman:Well you tell us if you crafted it, what was the intent behind that regulation.


Bill Sasse: That it was completely dustless.


Scott Daffron:It was actually originally put in as paved and we backed it down to dustless.


Bill Sasse: Right.Completely dustless.




Don Wittman:I guess what weíre saying is it is a dustless surface and it is not an issue.


Charles Peck:Weíve got to accept the engineerís judgment on that.


Scott Daffron: Does anybody else have any questions?Seeing none, Dee can we have a vote on 04-10A?


ROLL CALL:Bill Sasse, yes; Scott Rowley, absent; Charles Peck, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Scott Daffron, yes.MOTION APPROVED.


Scott Daffron:That approves your business portion.Moving on to the sign portion, I need a motion for approval of 04-10B Ė sign Ė Everything Trendy Ė 450 S High St Ė Hope Acri & Robin Kadvam Ė 4íx6í pole mounted sign Ė dark blue background with white lettering.


Charles Peck made a motion for approval of 04-10B, seconded by Jim Chubb.


Scott Daffron:It says wall mounted.


Hope Acri: There is a wall mounted sign already on the building.


Don Wittman:The changeable letter one?


Hope Acri:The changeable letter one, yeah.


Don Wittman:Thatís going to stay there?


Hope Acri: Yes.


Don Wittman:And the sketch we have provided is going to go into the existing panel?


Hope Acri:Correct.


Don Wittman: Which that is the size and height restriction from when it was previously approved as the restaurant.


(Multiple people talking)


Dee Daniels:It is pole mounted, correct.

Mayor Moll:Which you made them cut off.


Don Wittman:Which they did lower to comply with the height requirement so weíre all good there.Area requirement? Weíre good there.It meets our zoning ordinance.


Scott Daffron: Thereís no LED lights.


Bill Sasse:Is this going to be professionally done?


Hope Acri:Yes.


Charles Peck:By the way those flashing light arrows on the flat sign on the sign on the wall probably still work and they shouldnít thatís against the ordinances.


Don Wittman: Just donít operate them.


Hope Acri:Okay.


Don Wittman:Is this a business card?


Hope Acri:Yes.Thatís what this sign is going to be.We would also like to have a banner out for just a short period of time when we first open.It will be just like that.


Don Wittman:Just see me before that.


Hope Acri: Okay.


Scott Daffron:Dee can we have a vote on 04-10B?

ROLL CALL:†† Bill Sasse, yes; Scott Rowley, absent; Scott Daffron, yes; Charles Peck, yes; Jim Chubb, yes.MOTION APPROVED.


Scott Daffron: That approves your sign.


Hope Acri: I have a question.The way the loop goes in the front, the parking, like that.Can we have that as a handicap spot because there is a ramp that goes into the building?Can we use that as a handicap only spot?


Bill Sasse: Thatís what you had marked on the map here, correct?


Hope Acri:Yeah.I mean do we have to get a handicap sign to put there or do we get a no parking sign put there?


Bill Novakovich:It would have to be marked as handicap.Not only would there have to be a sign, it canít just be marked in the pavement.


Mayor Moll:Do they have to meet state requirements for this sizebusiness?

Bill Novakovich: If they are listing it as a handicap parking, yes.


Mayor Moll:Do they have to have handicap parking?


Bill Novakovich:Not with, not at that size.But if theyíre choosing to list it as handicap parking it has to follow theÖ


Mayor Moll:handicap rules.


Bill Novakovich:Right.


Don Wittman:You just want to put a sign up on either a post, and I think it is very specific that it has to be 48Ē high; the top of the sign has to be 48Ē from the pavement marking.And that will work.


(Multiple people talking)


Hope Acri:So itís not mandatory to have one then?


Don Wittman:Correct.


Hope Acri:Okay. Thank you.


Bill Sasse made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Charles Peck.


Charles Peck: I have a question though.Iím concerned I had a misunderstanding of a previous sign ordinance item, because in my mind, we were doing electronically variable, my mind was thinking you know LED being the result of that.


Don Wittman:Read your definition.


Charles Peck:Okay.


Mayor Moll: It can be electronically mechanical.I mean thatís what the definition is.We wanted that because we wanted everybody, I mean we didnít want the chicken to be bouncing up and down or anything.


(Multiple people talking)


ROLL CALL:Bill Sasse, yes; Scott Rowley, yes; Charles Peck, yes; Jim Chubb, yes; Scott Daffron, yes.MOTION APPROVED


Meeting Adjourned: _7:27 p.m.



____________________††††††† ___________†††††† __________________

Scott Daffron, Chairman†††††††††††††††† Date†††††††††† Dee Daniels, Secretary